9/22 (Tue) Good Intentions with Bad Outcomes (Host: David Jr.)

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David Jr.
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9/22 (Tue) Good Intentions with Bad Outcomes (Host: David Jr.)

文章 David Jr. »

Hello Everyone,

We are going to discuss an interesting topic about Intentions vs. Outcomes, Good vs. Bad and Right vs. Wrong.
Have fun.

Reference article: The Road to Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... intentions


Session 1 Discussion Questions:
1. How many times have you tried to help someone and the outcome was negative? What happended?

2. What does it take to make good intentions pairing with good outcomes? Please give some examples.

3. Do good intentions really matter? Why?

Session 2 Discussion Questions

4. What do you think about the person with bad or unhealthy intentions pairing with good outcomes?
Any real example around?
Is that person right or wrong?

5. Do you care more about the outcomes or the intentions? Why?

6. What is the road to heaven paved with?

**************************************************************************************************************************
Agenda:
6:45 ~ 7:00pm Greetings & Free Talk / Ordering Beverage or Meal / Getting Newcomer’s Information
7:00 ~ 7:10pm Opening Remarks / Newcomer’s Self-introduction / Grouping
(Session I)
7:10 ~ 7:50pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
7:50 ~ 8:10pm Summarization (20 mins)
8:10 ~ 8:15pm Regrouping / Instruction Giving / Taking a 5 Minutes Break (Intermission)
(Session II)
8:15 ~ 8:45pm Discussion Session (30 mins)
8:45 ~ 9:05pm Summarization (20 mins)
9:05 ~ 9:15pm Concluding Remarks / Announcements **************************************************************************************************************************
Meeting Date: As shown on the Subject Line
Meeting Time: 7:00pm – 9:15pm
Meeting Venue: 丹堤咖啡 Dante Coffee (Minimum Order $80)
Address: 台北市濟南路三段25號[MAP]-捷運忠孝新生站3號出口步行3分鐘

Important Notes:
1. We advise participants to print out the discussion questions and bring them to the meeting for reference. As for the supporting articles, feel free to print them out, as well, according to your preference.
2. We suggest that participants read the articles and think about the questions in advance.
3. Newcomers should prepare a two-to-three minute self-introduction in English to deliver when called upon by the host before the start of the discussion. The host may also ask you to give brief feedback about the meeting at the conclusion of the meeting.
4. We conduct the entire meeting in English. All participants should have at least moderate English-conversation skills and be able to articulate your ideas for each discussion question.
5. We welcome newcomers and other guests to attend the meetings and join the discussion freely for three times. After that, we hope you will consider becoming a YoYo English Club member. We charge a NT$1000 lifetime membership fee.
Remember all what your mom has told you, and do the opposite.
Luis Ko
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註冊時間: 週三 6月 06, 2007 10:18 pm

Re: 9/22 (Tue) Good Intentions with Bad Outcomes (Host: David Jr.)

文章 Luis Ko »

guess i believe in consequentialism, sort of lo~ :lol:
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
Michael-liu
YOYO member
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註冊時間: 週五 4月 24, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: 9/22 (Tue) Good Intentions with Bad Outcomes (Host: David Jr.)

文章 Michael-liu »

Wow! The article is long and the scope and scale it tries to discuss is huge.

This topic makes me wonder a question. I posted thoese English quiz on our LINE group with "good intentions", but maybe it becomes "hell" for some of our members. I hope people who never ever answer thoese quiz can tell me what they think.

6. What is the road to heaven paved with?

This is a good question. The only answer I can think of is "sincere compliment". What are you guys' answers?
最後由 Michael-liu 於 週一 9月 21, 2020 10:13 am 編輯,總共編輯了 1 次。
Janice Wang
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註冊時間: 週六 3月 25, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: 9/22 (Tue) Good Intentions with Bad Outcomes (Host: David Jr.)

文章 Janice Wang »

The following news link may serve the purpose better to explain my thoughts to the designated questions.
https://www.storm.mg/article/2779129

Every outcome interplays with intention and action. Our intent makes us take a specific action, and that action results in an outcome. Learned from the above news report, the desperate need is to ferret out the perpetrator and make him face the music for the sake of the suffering kid. However, there was not much follow-up news regarding how this specific incident was progressing afterward; all eyes were on the accusations of the intention and action between the entertainer and the in-charge civil servant. It seems to indicate that the perception of the intent and action is subject to what stance one takes.

Without reverberation and lopsided support for the entertainer, would the mayor and the PingDong educational officer acknowledge their negligence and mistake? Would the entertainer’s good deeds pan out and meet her expectations? Perhaps only time and her perseverance could tell. Sometimes a bit of sheer luck works as well!

Attempting to control the result seems beyond the realm of possibility. However, the intention, whether it is a good or bad one, is a vital energy and driving force to propel us to take actions that can lead to an infinite outcome. Act with benevolence; it can satisfy one even when the results are disappointing. Act with malice, as luck would have it, you may get a good outcome, but you caught yourself!

To answer the last question, I figure that it may come into focus for a believer of the afterlife more than others. For a pro-afterlife, the trajectory of one's intentions and actions probably will not deviate much from the moral standards. They genuinely believe that there is a day of reckoning in all our lives, and it will decide the afterlife of “going up” or “going down."
Michael-liu
YOYO member
文章: 610
註冊時間: 週五 4月 24, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: 9/22 (Tue) Good Intentions with Bad Outcomes (Host: David Jr.)

文章 Michael-liu »

Janice Wang 寫:
週一 9月 21, 2020 9:28 am

To answer the last question, I figure that it may come into focus for a believer of the afterlife more than others. For a pro-afterlife, the trajectory of one's intentions and actions probably will not deviate much from the moral standards. They genuinely believe that there is a day of reckoning in all our lives, and it will decide the afterlife of “going up” or “going down."
Hi, Janice

About the last question.

The title of the article "The Road to Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions", I think here "hell" is a metaphor, meaning making people very miserable.

So, I think David's last question is the same, "heaven" is metaphorical and doesn't mean the afterlife place we all will go to. That is why my answer to that question is "sincere compliment".

David, please correct me if I am wrong.
Luis Ko
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文章: 912
註冊時間: 週三 6月 06, 2007 10:18 pm

Re: 9/22 (Tue) Good Intentions with Bad Outcomes (Host: David Jr.)

文章 Luis Ko »

The road to hell is paved with good intentions is a proverb or aphorism. An alternative form is "Hell is full of good meanings, but heaven is full of good works", wikipedia says. 8)
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
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David Jr.
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Re: 9/22 (Tue) Good Intentions with Bad Outcomes (Host: David Jr.)

文章 David Jr. »

Luis Ko 寫:
週一 9月 21, 2020 1:43 pm
The road to hell is paved with good intentions is a proverb or aphorism. An alternative form is "Hell is full of good meanings, but heaven is full of good works", wikipedia says. 8)
Luis, it's great you find this proverb. Do you buy into this idea?
最後由 David Jr. 於 週一 9月 21, 2020 8:41 pm 編輯,總共編輯了 1 次。
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David Jr.
Vice President
文章: 250
註冊時間: 週二 8月 19, 2003 12:07 am
來自: Lonely Planet
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Re: 9/22 (Tue) Good Intentions with Bad Outcomes (Host: David Jr.)

文章 David Jr. »

Michael-liu 寫:
週一 9月 21, 2020 10:55 am
Janice Wang 寫:
週一 9月 21, 2020 9:28 am

To answer the last question, I figure that it may come into focus for a believer of the afterlife more than others. For a pro-afterlife, the trajectory of one's intentions and actions probably will not deviate much from the moral standards. They genuinely believe that there is a day of reckoning in all our lives, and it will decide the afterlife of “going up” or “going down."
Hi, Janice

About the last question.

The title of the article "The Road to Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions", I think here "hell" is a metaphor, meaning making people very miserable.

So, I think David's last question is the same, "heaven" is metaphorical and doesn't mean the afterlife place we all will go to. That is why my answer to that question is "sincere compliment".

David, please correct me if I am wrong.
Yes, Michael. I personally think either "hell" or "heaven" we discussed here is a metaphor or subjective perception existing only in your own mind. Everyone has their own version.
As for your comment about the Road to Heaven, please elaborate more on the connection of your perceived heaven with "sincere compliment"?
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David Jr.
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Re: 9/22 (Tue) Good Intentions with Bad Outcomes (Host: David Jr.)

文章 David Jr. »

Janice Wang 寫:
週一 9月 21, 2020 9:28 am
It seems to indicate that the perception of the intent and action is subject to what stance one takes.
You are right. It seems there is no such a unanimous agreement on what's absolutely good or bad on intent and action.
Attempting to control the result seems beyond the realm of possibility. However, the intention, whether it is a good or bad one, is a vital energy and driving force to propel us to take actions that can lead to an infinite outcome. Act with benevolence; it can satisfy one even when the results are disappointing. Act with malice, as luck would have it, you may get a good outcome, but you caught yourself!
Attempting to control or at least influence the outcome is always human being's goal, esp. for those who control the resources and resort to the help of science and discipline of management.
Michael-liu
YOYO member
文章: 610
註冊時間: 週五 4月 24, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: 9/22 (Tue) Good Intentions with Bad Outcomes (Host: David Jr.)

文章 Michael-liu »

Dear David,

Since "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" means other people's good-intentioned actions may make us very miserable, so I figured your last question is asking "what other people's actions would make us like in heaven, meaning to make us very happy"

So, my answer, "sincere compliment", means when other people pay us sincere compliments, it will make us so happy like in heaven. Thus, the road to heaven is paved with sincere compliments.
(查了字典才知道, 原來 compliments 當名詞用時, 動詞要用 pay)

Please don't hesitate to ask again if my elaboration is not clear enough.
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