10/18 (Sat.) Should We Have Kids? (Host: Johnie)

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Johnie
YOYO member
文章: 39
註冊時間: 週二 4月 22, 2008 11:03 am

10/18 (Sat.) Should We Have Kids? (Host: Johnie)

文章 Johnie »

Should we have kids?
Dear Yoyos, Here is Johnie. I’m so pleased to act the host on this Saturday afternoon.

Regarding this topic, I’d like to share one of my experiences with you.

In the rest of my life, I’ll never forget the day of the tragic accident that happened to my classmates when I studied in college. One morning, a classmate of mine and I were going to school together for the first class of the day. We saw a pool of dried blood on the road in front of the school entrance gate. My classmate and I looked at each other for a second. “Perhaps there was a terrible car accident that happened here last night,” I told him.
...........................................................................

Our teacher glanced around the classroom when the class was close to the end. “Aren't you aware that two of your classmates are absent today?” He held his breath and said. He spoke to us extremely slowly and unusually seriously.

“Last night, they got hit by a truck when they were riding a scooter back to their rented flat after they bought midnight snack,“ said he in a sad voice. “A lucky break out of misfortune is that they are fine and staying in Mackay Memorial Hospital right now, but one of them will suffer leg length discrepancy, and the other has to undergo skin-graft surgery in the leg,” our teacher continued. At the moment, , I was as stupefied as other classmates.

In the meantime, I was thinking about another issue: What would I do if I were their parents and how I could see my lovely kids suffer through such a tragedy. I also can’t image getting a phone call from hospital at midnight and being told that my sweet boy is involved in a serious car accident.”

Because of this reason, I took a vow secretly. Even though I like kids so much, I wouldn’t want to have my own children in my life, I told myself.
...........................................................................

Everyone in the class got a red egg from a teacher who just got his first baby a couple of days ago. I never saw such a delighted man like him. In addition, I was afraid that his jaw would drop since he kept smiling when he talked about his baby.

I told him about the car accident and my thought. “Sir, why did you choose to have a baby in this awful world?” I asked him. He looked at me curiously, which seemed to tell me that was a stupid question.

“Actually, I think that the environment is getting much worse as compared with the past. But, Johnie, have you ever thought that if your parents were too worried to have a kid, where would you have been now? Moreover, I believe that they care about you until their last days. With what is said above, why are you so selfish as not to take any responsibility for raising your children?”

I felt so ashamed at my previous thought. Therefore, I changed my thought completely after I heard his point.
Presently, one of my wishes is to play basketball with my son.


Questions for Discussion

Session I
1. Do you have any experience or reason cause that you make a decision not to have kids in your life? By contrast, you can also think about any experiences or reasons that may affect you and later hope to have your own children.
2. Do you prefer boys or girls? Why?
3. Try to list more than five advantages and disadvantages of having kids.

Session II
I am going to hold a debate in session II, but please don’t feel nervous and serious.
It doesn’t matter which side is the winner because it’s for fun only. :lol:
You may wish to refer to Question 3 in session I.

Here I can quote an argument on the opposition side: There have been too many orphans(孤兒). As we can adopt one of them as our own kid, why bother having a biological child?

Are you ready to enjoy the debate on this topic in English? Let’s go!


==================================================================================================================
Agenda
Session I:
2:15 ~ 2:30 Greeting / Ordering Beverage or Meal
2:30 ~ 2:40 Opening Remarks / New comers' Self-introduction / Grouping
2:40 ~ 3:10 First Group Discussion
3:10 ~ 3:25 First Summarization
3:25 ~ 3:30 Regrouping /Break
Session II:
3:30 ~ 3:35 Introduction
3:35 ~ 4:05 2nd Group Discussion
4:05 ~ 4:20 2nd Summarization
4:20 ~ 4:30 Concluding Remarks / Newcomers’ Feedback / Announcements

聚會時間:2008/10/18 (星期六) 請準時。聚會2:15 pm 到 ~ 約 4:30 pm 左右結束
聚會地點:合歡咖啡Acacia Cafe
地址: 台北市忠孝東路4段216巷33弄15號
電話: 02-8771-6230
捷運站: 板南線 忠孝敦化站
走法: 忠孝敦化站3號出口 -> 直走到ATT百貨 -> 右轉216巷 -> 直走到"東區粉圓"(對面為全家便利商店) -> 左轉33弄 ->直走約100公尺左手邊
低消: 90 元

給新朋友的話:
1. 請事先準備2~3分鐘的英語自我介紹;討論完畢後可能會請你發表1~2分鐘的感想(feedback)。
2. 請事先閱讀討論主題相關內容以及host所提的問題,並事先寫下自己所欲發表意見的英文。
3. 全程以英語進行,參加者應具備中等英語會話能力,對任一討論問題,能夠以5到10句英文表達個人見解。
4. 在正式加入之前(繳交可退還之保證金NT$1,000),可以先來觀摩三次。
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Jacky566
YOYO member
文章: 136
註冊時間: 週二 5月 27, 2008 4:44 pm
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Re: 10/18 (Sat.) Should we have kids? (Host: Johnie)

文章 Jacky566 »

聚會時間:2008/8/23 (星期六) 請準時。
Dear Johnie,
I would like to join this meeting with you .
But there is a serious problem that i can not find out my time machine to get back to that moment. hahaha :sun:
Kooper
YOYO member
文章: 2728
註冊時間: 週三 4月 11, 2007 11:40 pm

Re: 10/18 (Sat.) Should we have kids? (Host: Johnie)

文章 Kooper »

Jacky566 寫:
聚會時間:2008/8/23 (星期六) 請準時。
Dear Johnie,
I would like to join this meeting with you .
But there is a serious problem that i can not find out my time machine to get back to that moment. hahaha :sun:
Corrected. Thanks for pointing it out. :sun:
Georgia
YOYO member
文章: 480
註冊時間: 週三 11月 07, 2007 11:49 pm

Re: 10/18 (Sat.) Should we have kids? (Host: Johnie)

文章 Georgia »

I never considered there'd be a should or should not in the case of having children, even if I'm determined not to have any. It's more of a path I choose, there's no right or wrong , but one has to see whatever consequences attached to it, and be prepared to deal with them.
Kooper
YOYO member
文章: 2728
註冊時間: 週三 4月 11, 2007 11:40 pm

Re: 10/18 (Sat.) Should we have kids? (Host: Johnie)

文章 Kooper »

Johnie 寫:
Because of this reason, I took a vow secretly. Even though I like kids so much, I wouldn’t want to have my own children in my life, I told myself.
Hi Johnie,

I am glad you've changed your mind. As a matter of fact, I used to hold exactly the same thought and reasoning as yours. It wasn't until recently that I realized there was a fallacy in it - If the reasoning was correct, we also shouldn't seek any lifelong partner or have any intimate friends, so as to eliminate the risk of losing someone important in our lives.
sunsuni0831
Member
文章: 192
註冊時間: 週二 6月 05, 2007 10:39 pm

Re: 10/18 (Sat.) Should we have kids? (Host: Johnie)

文章 sunsuni0831 »

This is an really interesting TOPIC.
I have asked some of my friends or relatives.
What they concerned the most is "Money" that tehy are afraid they are not able to afford the expense.
According to the "Smart " magazine, it indicated the expense of rasing a children is more than 5 million NT dollars. What a sweet and heavy burden for the normal parents.
But most of my friends that are already parents said consistently "having their own children still can regard as the best thing in their life".
I put the article as followed, and maybe everyone can take a look. Sorry I know we should discuss in English but it is a chinese magazine.

Sunny Jr.:ssmile:

<最保守估計 父母的重擔養個小孩500萬> 李月華 
  曾有統計數字指出,養育1個小孩長大成人要花1000萬元。一項最新統計顯示,1000萬太誇張,但是1個孩子從呱呱墜地到接受完整教育(研究所畢業),最保守估計要500萬元,其中生育費14萬、養育費236萬、保母及教育費(含學校的學雜費及才藝補習費)250萬,而這還是假設孩子一路上念的都是公立學校,換成是私校或者當中有留級或重考的情形,費用可難算了。

  根據《Smart智富月刊》及《媽媽寶寶》雜誌的估算,教養子女每個階段花費不同,父母的負擔不但沒有隨著孩子的成長而減輕,反而愈來愈沈重,其中除了學齡前每年25萬元的費用較高外,15歲(初三)、18歲(高三)、22歲(大四)和24歲(研二)亦分別出現24萬、27萬、28萬、以及26萬元的高峰,這種情形和升學壓力下的補習支出大幅成長有關。
  在這項估算中,光是生下1個孩子,就要花掉16萬元;孩子從1到6歲,養育費加保母費 (只帶白天)或幼稚園及才藝班學費,每年要25萬元;7到12歲小學階段,養育費每年9萬,學雜費和才藝班7萬,合計每年16萬元。13、14歲念國一、國二,養育費10萬、學雜費2萬、補習費6萬,合計每年18萬元,國三補習費倍增為12萬,所以一年要24萬元。

  升上高中之後,高一、二(16到17歲)養育費(含上學車資及零用錢)12萬、學雜項3萬、上補習班6萬,合計每年要21萬,18歲高三那年其他費用不變,但補習費倍增,總計要27萬元。大學前3年(19到21歲),養育費每年14萬(含住宿8萬、交通2萬、零用4萬)、學雜書籍和社團支出共7萬,每年一共22萬元,大四、22歲,由於要報考研究所而新增一筆6萬元的進修補習班費用,所以一年就要28萬。順利考上研究所後,養育和學費、書籍每年共24萬,但是拿學位還要多花一筆論文製作費12萬元,換言之,24歲研二這年總共要花26萬元。

育兒成本沉重 1個小孩花掉家庭總收入3、4成

【記者李國煌╱報導】

  孩子真的是父母既「甜蜜」、卻又「沉重」的負擔,根據一項調查顯示,5成的家庭,養育子女的費用,佔家庭總收入的三分之一;其中,補習、學雜費負擔最重,而且,養了小孩影響退休計畫。

  養育女子負擔重不重?7成父母覺得很沉重,5成以上的人認為,養小孩的花費,影響到退休的計畫,一想到要花大筆錢,5成以上的人同意:影響他們生小孩的意願。

  養育一個小孩,花掉家裡多少錢?智富月刊的調查顯示,5成的受訪者表示,大約佔了家庭收入的3、4成,等於是養育小孩的費用,佔了家庭總收入的三分之一。

  認為教養女子的負擔,並不沉重、很普通的人,不到3成,大部分的人都認為,這項負擔很沉重。

  各項教養費用中,父母最擔心的是哪一項?受訪者當中,5成左右的人認為,籌措補習費、才藝費,最令人擔心,認為最擔心籌措食物費、衣物費、保險費的佔不到5%。

  至於教養的錢,多花到哪裡去?以幼兒來看,超過7成的人,最想把錢花在幼兒潛能、語言學習。另外,為了強化孩子的競爭力,54%的父母認為,他們最想把錢花在子女學習英語上。這個結果顯示,父母多認為,子女的語言學習很重要,英語是其中重要項目。

  面對這麼沉重的負擔,父母怎麼辦?專家指出,最好利用多元化的理財方式,建立獨立理財的能力,累積財富,才能完成養育女子、做好自己退休的計畫。這項調查由智富月刊、媽媽寶寶雜誌、智富網合作完成,受訪者總計3347人。
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Angel Lin
YOYO member
文章: 188
註冊時間: 週四 11月 11, 2004 10:18 pm
來自: 宇宙/第三度空間

Re: 10/18 (Sat.) Should we have kids? (Host: Johnie)

文章 Angel Lin »

I really feel that it is a special topic after I read this article from Johnie’s email,
and I did deliberate before whether or not to bear babies~
In spite of different processes and reasons, I changed my mind as Johnie eventually...

I think it would be a very interesting discussion, and hope that you will enjoy yourselves with us on October 18th! ^^
I was taught to strive not because there were any guarantees of success but because the act of striving is in itself the only way to keep faith with life. Madeleine Albright
我學到要努力並非是因為有任何成功的保證, 而是因為努力的行為本身是保持人生信念的唯一途徑。 麥德琳‧歐布萊特
Luis Ko
YOYO member
文章: 972
註冊時間: 週三 6月 06, 2007 10:18 pm

Re: 10/18 (Sat.) Should We Have Kids? (Host: Johnie)

文章 Luis Ko »

Session II
I am going to hold a debate in session II, but please don’t feel nervous and serious.
It doesn’t matter which side is the winner because it’s for fun only. :lol:
You may wish to refer to Question 3 in session I.

Here I can quote an argument on the opposition side: There have been too many orphans(孤兒). As we can adopt one of them as our own kid, why bother having a biological child?

Are you ready to enjoy the debate on this topic in English? Let’s go!
sorry..
i guess i really should have kept a grip on myself, though i did enjoy it haaa :mrgreen:
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
Johnie
YOYO member
文章: 39
註冊時間: 週二 4月 22, 2008 11:03 am

Re: 10/18 (Sat.) Should We Have Kids? (Host: Johnie)

文章 Johnie »

Participants


Members(15):Johnie, David Jr, Luis, Jacky, Rebecca, Kelly, Benson, Vicky Wu, Laura, Angel Lin, Fred Lee, Debbie,

Maggie, Stephen, Claire Chuang

New Comer: Taurus
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sunsuni0831
Member
文章: 192
註冊時間: 週二 6月 05, 2007 10:39 pm

Re: 10/18 (Sat.) Should We Have Kids? (Host: Johnie)

文章 sunsuni0831 »

Johnie..
Unfortuantelly, I couldn't attend this meeting by working overtime.

:ccry: Sunny Jr.
Johnie
YOYO member
文章: 39
註冊時間: 週二 4月 22, 2008 11:03 am

Re: 10/18 (Sat.) Should We Have Kids? (Host: Johnie)

文章 Johnie »

sunsuni0831 寫:Johnie..
Unfortuantelly, I couldn't attend this meeting by working overtime.

:ccry: Sunny Jr.
Dear Sunny,
Ha, That's ok la. Although seems that they enjoied the debat so much and got a little bit exciting.
But I still expected u were there since I want hear ur unique point. :ssmile:

And buddy Luis,
Thank you for providing a quite different view of thought, u meant: maybe people who have children are selfish
because they only care about themself to feel fulfillment.
FYR,
Luis Ko
YOYO member
文章: 972
註冊時間: 週三 6月 06, 2007 10:18 pm

Re: 10/18 (Sat.) Should We Have Kids? (Host: Johnie)

文章 Luis Ko »

haa that's because i always try to buck the system of the society haaa :mrgreen:
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
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