10/31(Sat.) Does school kill creativity? (Host:Stephen Chiu)

stephen185
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註冊時間: 週三 5月 30, 2007 8:23 pm

10/31(Sat.) Does school kill creativity? (Host:Stephen Chiu)

文章 stephen185 »

Recently, I came across a video clip posted in TED website(http://www.ted.com/) which is a record of the speech made by Ken Robinson about how our school education kills creativity. He brought up some ideas that stimulate my deep thoughts, in partcular, that the whole purpose of public education throughout the world is to produce university professors. The following is part of the transcript of his speech. Hope you find it interesting and I will meet you in the coming Saturday meeting.
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Picasso once said that all children are born artists. The problem is to remain an artist as we grow up. I believe this passionately: that we don't grow into creativity, we grow out of it. Or rather, we get educated out of it. Kids are more willing to take a chance (risk of being wrong). I don't mean to say that being wrong is the same thing as being creative. What we do know is, if you're not prepared to be wrong, you'll never come up with anything original. And by the time they get to be adults, most kids have lost that capacity. They have become frightened of being wrong. And we run our companies like this, by the way. We stigmatize mistakes. And we're now running national education systems where mistakes are the worst thing you can make. And the result is that we are educating people out of their creative capacities.

Every education system on earth has the same hierarchy of subjects. At the top are mathematics and languages, then the humanities, and the bottom are the arts. I think you'd have to conclude the whole purpose of public education throughout the world is to produce university professors. Our education system is predicated on the idea of academic ability. And there's a reason. The whole system was invented -- around the world, there were no public systems of education, really, before the 19th century. They all came into being to meet the needs of industrialism. So the hierarchy is rooted on two ideas. Number one, that the most useful subjects for work are at the top. The second is academic ability, which has really come to dominate our view of intelligence, because the universities designed the system in their image. If you think of it, the whole system of public education around the world is a protracted process of university entrance. And the consequence is that many highly talented, brilliant, creative people think they're not, because the thing they were good at wasn't valued at school, or was actually stigmatized.

In the next 30 years, according to UNESCO, more people worldwide will be graduating through education than since the beginning of history. Suddenly, degrees aren't worth anything. When I was a student, if you had a degree, you had a job. But now kids with degrees are often heading home to carry on playing video games, because you need an MA where the previous job required a BA, and now you need a PhD for the other. It's a process of academic inflation. And it indicates the whole structure of education is shifting beneath our feet. We need to radically rethink our view of intelligence.

We know three things about intelligence. One, it's diverse. We think about the world in all the ways that we experience it. We think visually, we think in sound, we think kinesthetically. We think in abstract terms, we think in movement. Secondly, intelligence is dynamic, wonderfully interactive. The brain isn't divided into compartments. In fact, creativity -- which I define as the process of having original ideas that have value -- more often than not comes about through the interaction of different disciplinary ways of seeing things. And the third thing about intelligence is, it's distinct.

I believe our only hope for the future is to adopt a new conception of human ecology, one in which we start to reconstitute our conception of the richness of human capacity. Our education system has mined our minds in the way that we strip-mine the earth: for a particular commodity. And for the future, it won't serve us. We have to rethink the fundamental principles on which we're educating our children.

Reference:
http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_s ... ivity.html
You can find Sir Ken Robinson's biography at http://www.sirkenrobinson.com/index2.ph ... width=1024

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In the begining of the first session, the host will play the complete video of the speech (about 19 minutes).

Questions suggested for Session I:

Q1. Have you ever been benignly advised to steer away from things you liked at school, on the grounds that you would never get a job doing that? What's your opinion about the art majors and science/engineering majors when it comes to job finding? Will there be any difference in the next few decades?

Q2. What do you think about the idea of emphasizing equally on science and art educations so that children with diverse talents can have equal opportunity to develop their own gifted capacity?

Q3. What's your opinion about the education in those"alternative schools" (or so called "forest school") in Taiwan where the main purpose of all classes is to nuture children's creativity?

Q4. According to UNESCO, more people worldwide will be graduating through education than since the beginning of history in the next 30 years. In your opinion, is it possible that degrees aren't worth anything at that time? what will be the most wanted capabilities in the job market then?

Questions for session II:

No question is provided for the second session. A video clip that is related to children education will be played in the begining of the session. Each group is encouraged to do free discussion and members to express their own feeling towards and/or any comment on the video content. Thoughts sharing with all attendees in the end of the session will be on volunteer basis.

********************************************************************************************************************************************
Agenda:
Session I:
2:15 ~ 2:30 Greeting / Ordering Beverage or Meal
2:30 ~ 2:40 Opening Remarks / New comers' Self-introduction / Grouping
2:40 ~ 3:20 First Group Discussion
3:20 ~ 3:35 First Summarization
3:35 ~ 3:40 Regrouping /Break
Session II:
3:40 ~ 3:45 Introduction
3:45 ~ 4:25 Second Group Discussion
4:25 ~ 4:40 2nd Summarization
4:40 ~ 4:50 Concluding Remarks / Announcements
********************************************************************************************************************************************
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聚會時間:請準時 2:15 pm 到 ~ 約 5:00 pm 左右結束
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toshi
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文章: 1383
註冊時間: 週日 7月 27, 2008 8:26 pm
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Re: 10/31(Sat.) Does school kill creativity? (Host:Stephen Chiu)

文章 toshi »

I also enjoyed this one. I was considering to choose this one as my topic. But later on I commented it in my topic http://forum.yoyo.tw/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5&start=15

Instead, I chose the following TED talk as my next hosting topic. There are some connections between these two talks. You will see!
11/23、25 (Mon.、Wed.) On Spaghetti Sauce (Host:Toshi)
隨你所喜
或酒、或詩、或是喜!
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Gloria Lo
YOYO member
文章: 367
註冊時間: 週一 2月 04, 2008 7:51 am

Re: 10/31(Sat.) Does school kill creativity? (Host:Stephen Chiu)

文章 Gloria Lo »

Stephen,
You stole my idea! :x
Just kidding. :lol:
I haven't read your article yet but I am reading the book "The Element", written by Ken Robinson,its Chinese title is讓天賦自由.
This very topic is my pocket idea which I am going to discuss in the future.
And this coming Saturday afternoon I'm going to take my daughter to enjoy an Italian funny puppet play in order to cultivate her creativity.
I really want to join the meeting you'll host.
I have to think....... :roll:
最後由 Gloria Lo 於 週二 10月 27, 2009 10:40 am 編輯,總共編輯了 2 次。
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wenhan1122
Vice President
文章: 175
註冊時間: 週三 8月 20, 2008 3:29 pm

Re: 10/31(Sat.) Does school kill creativity? (Host:Stephen Chiu)

文章 wenhan1122 »

Hi Stephen and all,

This is a really interested topic and this topic actually covers even deeper and broader than we thought.

I suppose the origin of the education should have the same long history of the human. The elders of the tribes taught their young people how to collect food, hunt animals....in a systematic way. In a word, a mean to deliver our knowledge collected since our ancestors to next generations effectively.

Along with the world became more complicated, education with simply delivering the knowledge wouldn't fit in this world, so we have different education systems to serve various purposes. And we have different schools to execute the missions to the purposes.

For me, education, education system and school education sound like three different concepts.

Below links FYI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education

Jasper's The Ideal of The University, in Chinese
http://books.google.com.tw/books?id=Nxz ... B5&f=false
最後由 wenhan1122 於 週一 10月 26, 2009 1:02 pm 編輯,總共編輯了 1 次。
The real peace is not merely the absence of warfare, but the presence of justice
stephen185
YOYO member
文章: 206
註冊時間: 週三 5月 30, 2007 8:23 pm

Re: 10/31(Sat.) Does school kill creativity? (Host:Stephen Chiu)

文章 stephen185 »

Toshi,

Glad to hear that you like this speech too. And I would love to hear your ideads more about the topic during this coming meeting. Actually, my topic is somewhat related to the topic Maggie hosted for last Saturday.She brought a book, " What I Wish I Knew When I was 20" (by Tina Seelig), in which Ms. Seelig gives several examples of the creativity project in her classes at Standford university. I wish I'd read this book when I was 20.

Gloria,

I would like to say that your students are lucky to have a teacher like you who have really given much thought to what is the best for them. looking forward to the meeting you host.
You know what, instead of coming to the meeting, Maybe I should invite the attendees to the puppet show together with you this Saturday. Hmm... I have to think...

Stephen
最後由 stephen185 於 週六 10月 31, 2009 8:40 am 編輯,總共編輯了 2 次。
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Gloria Lo
YOYO member
文章: 367
註冊時間: 週一 2月 04, 2008 7:51 am

Re: 10/31(Sat.) Does school kill creativity? (Host:Stephen Chiu)

文章 Gloria Lo »

I wrote something about the the book"每個孩子都是第一名", which is about school education in Finland.
I also went to the author's speech last week.
If you don't have time to read this book, just read my summary and visit my blog. WELCOME!!! :lol:

The link is as followed,
http://blog.ssps.tpc.edu.tw/index.php?o ... &blogId=71
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toshi
YOYO member
文章: 1383
註冊時間: 週日 7月 27, 2008 8:26 pm
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Re: 10/31(Sat.) Does school kill creativity? (Host:Stephen Chiu)

文章 toshi »

Gloria Lo 寫:I wrote something about the the book"每個孩子都是第一名", which is about school education in Finland.
I also went to the author's speech last week.
If you don't have time to read this book, just read my summary and visit my blog. WELCOME!!! :lol:

The link is as followed,
http://blog.ssps.tpc.edu.tw/index.php?o ... &blogId=71
I just read it! Great! ^_^
沒有「最好的」學生、沒有「最好的」學校
It just reminds me the idea in the talk in On Spaghetti Sauce - Malcolm Gladwell
"You had been looking for the perfect Pepsi. You're wrong. You should be looking for the perfect Pepsis."
"There is no perfect pickle. There is only perfect pickles."

Another book I feel interested in about the education in Finland is 芬蘭教育世界第一的祕密. I am going to read it soon.
隨你所喜
或酒、或詩、或是喜!
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technobabel
YOYO member
文章: 1188
註冊時間: 週六 5月 14, 2005 8:42 pm
來自: Eastern Seaboard

Re: 10/31(Sat.) Does school kill creativity? (Host:Stephen Chiu)

文章 technobabel »

It all comes down to how broad or narrow one wish to define "academic success" or success in general.
In an ideal world, abundance of alternative paths will lead to success that makes everybody happy.
But in reality, venturing into uncharted territory isn't always fun or rewarding.
And there are reasons why alternative paths are often discouraged.
Besides, Taiwan isn't a society well-rounded enough to appreciate diversity of talents in all shapes or forms.
I am not abandoning Yoyo, I am just dancing slowly away from it.
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Gloria Lo
YOYO member
文章: 367
註冊時間: 週一 2月 04, 2008 7:51 am

Re: 10/31(Sat.) Does school kill creativity? (Host:Stephen Chiu)

文章 Gloria Lo »

I don’t remember any school teachers advised me to steer away from things I liked. But, decades ago, when I was an elementary school student and really enjoyed making an excavator for schoolwork, my father persuaded me not to spend much time in making artworks. “You won’t earn a living by that.” He said. Rather, he encouraged me to put an effort into English and computer when I was in college. I was tame and respected my father very much, and of course, I followed his ideas. Since then, the world lost a promising young artist, and a not- talented-enough teacher was born. Now, I am grateful for him from my deep heart since my coworker, Li-wen, said her nieces and nephews who work as art or creativity- related jobs have long working hours and earn little.

Time changes, what I believed and practiced until now may not work in the future. By contrary, I have to worry school education or I myself kill creativity of children because all evidence shows that only creativity-related jobs provide hope for Taiwan in the future. Make sure we leave enough free time for children to foster the intelligence of creativity; don’t set unnecessary rules, or give examples and ask them to follow when teaching ; admire unique thought and encourage them to realize it; expose them to imaginary space as possible. All mentioned above are what we, as parents and teachers, can do now to ensure the living of next generation when they grow up. Besides, respect what they are. That means we have to respect their ways to learning------visual style, auditory style or kinesthetic style, appreciate their performance in different subjects or even it belongs to no subject, and, don’t care school reporting card too much except concerning their obviously bad behavior.

I don’t want to admit that writing the former two short paragraphs took me several hours. I am sure I don’t have much talent in language. :oops:

.
Sherry Liao
YOYO member
文章: 1483
註冊時間: 週五 12月 07, 2007 12:15 pm

Re: 10/31(Sat.) Does school kill creativity? (Host:Stephen Chiu)

文章 Sherry Liao »

This topic reminds me of a conversation last week, when my daughter talked "educational system" to me. She said recently she read a biography of Thomas Alva Edison (a children's version), and found that for such a talented and inventive person, Edison was considered an idiot and dropped out of school in his early childhood. To her surprise, Edison was homeschooled and spent quite some time studying on his own account, but turned out to be an influential inventor and successful businessman after he grew up. My girl's conclusion was that there must have been something wrong with the school education system.

It was another bustling day and I really didn't like the excuse my daughter made for her unsatisfactory grade. So I told her: "I don't know much about Edison's childhood, but I do know that people as talented as Edison are very rare. You've got to have ordinary schooling for ordinary students."

I felt regretful instantly after I blurted out the words. One of my schooldays' memory suddenly came across my mind. I recalled that when I was a college student, a professor told me that I was a very creative student. (It took me quite a while to realize that I was not, after I met some REALLY creative people. However, I bought her words at the moment.) I performed well in the job I was assigned by her and did it creatively. The experience of success even internalized and influenced me for a long time.

To date I still believe in education. I think you will never imagine what is going to be harvested when you plant a seed in a child or student's heart. It's the magic of education, to turn the ordinary into extraordinary.
Sherry Liao
YOYO member
文章: 1483
註冊時間: 週五 12月 07, 2007 12:15 pm

Re: 10/31(Sat.) Does school kill creativity? (Host:Stephen Chiu)

文章 Sherry Liao »

Gloria Lo 寫:I don’t want to admit that writing the former two short paragraphs took me several hours. I am sure I don’t have much talent in language. :oops:
That makes two of us. :lol:

I would say that writing in English is the most demanding job I have been doing recently. It's kind of weird to find that the longer you learn a language, the tougher it is to use the language to write. :o
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technobabel
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文章: 1188
註冊時間: 週六 5月 14, 2005 8:42 pm
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Re: 10/31(Sat.) Does school kill creativity? (Host:Stephen Chiu)

文章 technobabel »

When the child is still young the common practice is to encourage all kinds of creativity.
Let kids be kids. Soon or later they will have to judge for themselves.
Too many Taiwanese parents see the education as nothing more than just a career preparation path.
That mindset is just "too pragmatic" for this ever-changing world.
Non-Asian parents in America doesn't seemed to be that worried.
I don't recall seeing any news articles on related topic on the front page.
Things just seemed work themselves out in the end.
Why is that?
I think the key is that there is a influential concept of liberal arts education in America.
The term liberal arts denotes a curriculum that imparts general knowledge and develops the student’s rational thought and intellectual capabilities, unlike the professional, vocational, technical curricula emphasizing specialization.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_arts
Speaking of liberal arts education, here is a TED speech that you might have heard before.
In my humble opinion, this is the TED speech that no Taiwanese parents can afford to overlook.

http://www.ted.com/talks/liz_coleman_s_ ... ation.html
I am not abandoning Yoyo, I am just dancing slowly away from it.
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Gloria Lo
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文章: 367
註冊時間: 週一 2月 04, 2008 7:51 am

Re: 10/31(Sat.) Does school kill creativity? (Host:Stephen Chiu)

文章 Gloria Lo »

Sherry Liao 寫:
Gloria Lo 寫:I don’t want to admit that writing the former two short paragraphs took me several hours. I am sure I don’t have much talent in language. :oops:
That makes two of us. :lol:

I would say that writing in English is the most demanding job I have been doing recently. It's kind of weird to find that the longer you learn a language, the tougher it is to use the language to write. :o

Sherry,

I feel better now! :cccry:


Gloria
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technobabel
YOYO member
文章: 1188
註冊時間: 週六 5月 14, 2005 8:42 pm
來自: Eastern Seaboard

Re: 10/31(Sat.) Does school kill creativity? (Host:Stephen Chiu)

文章 technobabel »

Gloria Lo 寫:
Sherry Liao 寫:
Gloria Lo 寫:I don’t want to admit that writing the former two short paragraphs took me several hours. I am sure I don’t have much talent in language. :oops:
That makes two of us. :lol:

I would say that writing in English is the most demanding job I have been doing recently. It's kind of weird to find that the longer you learn a language, the tougher it is to use the language to write. :o

Sherry,

I feel better now! :cccry:


Gloria
Writing is a basic form of creativity. Safe to say that at least some people's creativity had survived those school years and is alive and kicking.
I am not abandoning Yoyo, I am just dancing slowly away from it.
stephen185
YOYO member
文章: 206
註冊時間: 週三 5月 30, 2007 8:23 pm

Re: 10/31(Sat.) Does school kill creativity? (Host:Stephen Chiu)

文章 stephen185 »

wenhan1122 寫:Hi Stephen and all,

This is a really interested topic and this topic actually covers even deeper and broader than we thought.

I suppose the origin of the education should have the same long history of the human. The elders of the tribes taught their young people how to collect food, hunt animals....in a systematic way. In a word, a mean to deliver our knowledge collected since our ancestors to next generations effectively.

Along with the world became more complicated, education with simply delivering the knowledge wouldn't fit in this world, so we have different education systems to serve various purposes. And we have different schools to execute the missions to the purposes.

For me, education, education system and school education sound like three different concepts.

Below links FYI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education

Jasper's The Ideal of The University, in Chinese
http://books.google.com.tw/books?id=Nxz ... B5&f=false
Wenhan,

Indeed, education can be implemented through various ways. Fortunately, or unfortunately, public education is still the most popular and affordable, relatively(*), to ordinary people. What worries me much is the huge discrepancy in the quality of public schools in Taiwan.

* The yearly tuition for public university costs about two months' salary of a person in Taiwan, based on the estimated GNP of year 2009, which is US$16280 (NT$540,000) or so.
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