3/15(Tue) Attractiveness Does Affect Scores... (Host:Kooper)

[Kooper]

Pretty Girls Get Better Grades: Attractiveness Does Affect Women’s Scores — But Not Men’s
A new study shows this bias comes from both male and female instructors, too. (source: ALTERNET http://www.alternet.org/gender/pretty-g ... s-not-mens)

I pulled many all-nighters in college and graduate school. Long hours, with little to no sleep became my lifestyle, and I’d wake up each morning, do my best to look presentable, and do it all over again. I was an academic overachiever, and would rather lose sleep than lose face when it came to my grades. I did my best to make it look easy, turning in seminar papers in sundresses then strolling away as if I hadn’t spent the last three days obsessing over sentence structure and research. I graduated with honors, and was proud to achieve academic success.

But a new study sheds light on an ugly truth when it comes to women’s academic performance. According to research presented at the American Economic Association yesterday, attractive women get better grades not due to higher intelligence, but professor bias. If men aren’t dating us because we’re too smart for our own good, then we’re making the grade for expertly applying mascara. The study’s researchers used a sample of more than 5,000 students and more than 100,000 grades and found that physical attractiveness affects the grades of women, not men.

Economic researchers at Metropolitan State University of Denver collected student ID photos, and had study participants rate the students’ attractiveness on a scale of one to ten. The research team later examined measures of academic achievement such as final course grades and ACT scores. To determine attractiveness, the researchers established each rater’s baseline bias before showing the photos, which was later subtracted from the ratings assigned to each participant. As it turns out, an increase of one standard deviation in terms of attractiveness for female students was found to correspond with a 0.024 grade increase based on a 4.0 scale. Researchers later divided the female students into three groups — average, more attractive, less attractive — and found the women in the less attractive group received average course grades 0.067 points lower than those earned from the two other groups.

Rey Hernandez-Julian, one of the lead researchers, told Inside Higher Ed it could be “professors invest more time and energy into the better-looking students, helping them learn more and earn the higher grades” or perhaps educators “simply reward the appearance with higher grades given identical performance.”

The results of the study found the gender of the rater or professor didn’t matter. Both men and women tended to give attractive females higher grades. The disparity did not exist for men, or students taking online classes.

It’s disheartening to think about. I have attractive female friends who worked just as hard (if not harder) than I did in school who were equally proud of their academic accomplishments. My friend Kristin, for example, stops hearts — literally. A bombshell blonde, Kristin studied cardiovascular sciences at Oxford University, and we’ve had many conversations about pursuing advanced degrees and the discrimination that stems from being a woman in traditionally male-dominated fields of studies.

Oftentimes women are discriminated against for 1) being female and 2) being somewhat attractive. When will we stop judging women on their intelligence based on their looks? The study results can be damaging, too — my bone structure didn’t help me learn Latin conjugations any more in college than my boobs helped me master syntax in graduate school. None of my professors ever seemed to favor or disfavor me based on my looks, but to even question it cheapens the way I value my career as a scholar.

Whatever. At the end of the day I guess there’s worse things a woman can be than cute and cum laude.

---

Questions for Discussion
Session One
1. What are the scientific findings covered in the article?

2. Does the finding that good looks give female students a head start in grade align with your common sense? Do you have any first-hand experience that makes a case “for” or “against” the finding? Does it also hold true at work places based on your observation?

3. Why do you think better appearance benefits only women’s academic performances but not men’s?

3.5 The author said at the last sentence, "At the end of the day I guess there’s worse things a woman can be than cute and cum laude." What are the worse things that the author refer to?

Session Two
4. Correlation does not equal to causation. The researchers attribute the correlation between female appearance and grades to gender bias. How have they justified the claim? What other possible causal relationships could you think of?

5. Making headlines helps scientific discoveries look authoritative and convincing, but that doesn’t guarantee they are correctly reported or academically significant. We readers shall remain skeptical and critical all the time. What do you think are missing in the research, or in this article, that are important and can make or break the findings?

6. The readers' comments mentioned other types of instructor bias, such as preference for male students or those who sit in the front rows in class. Do you agree that these bias exist? What other bias professors could have?

6.5 What did the author mean by saying "The study results can be damaging, too — my bone structure didn’t help me learn Latin conjugations any more in college than my boobs helped me master syntax in graduate school"?

---

Agenda:
6:45 ~ 7:00pm Greetings & Free Talk / Ordering Beverage or Meal / Getting Newcomer’s Information
7:00 ~ 7:10pm Opening Remarks / Newcomer’s Self-introduction / Grouping
(Session I)
7:10 ~ 7:50pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
7:50 ~ 8:10pm Summarization (20 mins)
8:10 ~ 8:25pm Regrouping / Instruction Giving / Taking a 10 Minutes Break (Intermission)
(Session II)
8:25 ~ 9:05pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
9:05 ~ 9:25pm Summarization (20 mins)
9:25 ~ 9:30pm Concluding Remarks / Announcements

聚會日期：列於該貼文主題內
聚會時間：當天請準時於 6:45 pm 到達 ~ 約 9:30 pm 左右結束
星期二聚會地點：丹堤濟南店
地址、電話：台北市濟南路三段25號 地圖 (02) 2740-2350
捷運站：板南線 忠孝新生站 3 號出口
走法：出忠孝新生站 3 號出口後，沿著巷子(忠孝東路三段10巷)走約 2 分鐘，到了濟南路口，左轉走約 2 分鐘即可看到。
最低消費： 80 元

注意事項：
1. 文章是否需要列印請自行斟酌，但與會者請務必自行列印 Questions for discussion。
2. 與會者請先閱讀過文章，並仔細想過所有的問題，謝謝合作！

給新朋友的話：
1. 請事先準備 2~3 分鐘的英語自我介紹；會議結束前可能會請你發表 1~2 分鐘的感想。
2. 請事先閱讀文章以及主持人所提的討論問題，並事先寫下自己所欲發表意見的英文。
3. 全程以英語進行，參加者應具備中等英語會話能力，對任一討論問題，能夠以 5 到 10 句英文表達個人見解。
4. 在正式加入之前，可以先來觀摩三次，觀摩者亦須參與討論。正式加入需繳交終身會費 NT$1,000。

[Luis Ko]

the last sentence is really interesting oh..

"Whatever. At the end of the day I guess there’s worse things a woman can be than cute and cum laude."

[Michael-liu]

1. Maybe Rock can shed some light on this topic. Hey! Rock! Do you invest more time and energy into the better-looking students, helping them learn more and earn the higher grades? Be honest to us. HaHa

2. In the article, it says "Oftentimes women are discriminated against for 2) being somewhat attractive"
Huh.....How come? As we all know, in Taiwan's media, they often use terms like "美女議員", "美女檢察官", "美女律師"
Do they feel they are being discriminated? I guess not. They probably feel happy when being called such a term. At most, they just don't want people
to ignore their professional achievement in a traditionally male-dominated field.

3. "Whatever. At the end of the day I guess there’s worse things a woman can be than cute and cum laude."
I am not quite sure what the author meant by saying this. I already asked Kat to explain

[Rock]

...Hey! Rock! Do you invest more time and energy into the better-looking students, helping them learn more and earn the higher grades?...

1. NO, I don't. I always pay more time on those who willing to learn or left behind. However, I do, like everybody else does, anywhere in the world, pay more attention on good-looking people, at least for the first time. Would you treat your seven daughters equally, even if they were not as cute as the first one? (I strongly suggest you have more daughters in the future. The first one is a great success, the others surely would be as cute! No doubt. You wouldn't know which one you should favor more. )

2. Some hardcore feminists would take the feminine compliment as an anti-feminism discrimination because they believe feminization hurts females and femininity is not necessary. (Can you finish this sentence in one breath? )

3. Come on, the English part of this sentence is easy; you cannot figure it out because you're still young! The writer is saying that the unfair favoring-beautiful-girl-students" thing is nor a big deal. There are many more unfair things in the world. Why does she say so? Perhaps she is good-looking herself.

[Rock]

BTW, you'd have difficulties remembering their names, too.

[Tina Sun]

1. Rock is such a good teacher. And I do care a little bit more to my 2nd puppy girl, Ice than the 1st one, Snow. Hahaha... only because she is cuter and more stupid.

2. Sometime the the feminine compliment can be a burden as well. That means, those "美女議員", "美女檢察官", "美女律師" one day get fat or become not pretty as they were, people discuss it and they get hurt. However it should be their professional ability to be discussed. Or maybe people didn't care it in the first place.

3. I found it hard to believe this finding even it's surveyed scientifically. After all, ~~~ No money, no honey. (something like that....)

[Kooper]

Words and Expressions of the article:

I pulled many all-nighters in college and graduate school = spend all night studying

... do my best to look presentable

I was an academic overachiever = someone who achieves more success than expected

... turn in seminar papers in sundresses then strolling away ... stroll: walk in a slow relaxed way

... obsess over sentence structure and research

... graduate with honors

a new study sheds light on an ugly truth = make it easier for you to understand something

The disparity did not exist for men, or students taking online classes = difference

It's disheartening to think about ... = discouraging

a bombshell blonde = an attractive woman

to even question it cheapens the way I value my career as a scholar = make it seem less valuable or important

[Kooper]

The last sentence of the article has sparked off an in-depth discussion on YOYO Line group. Here I quoted verbatim as following.

Michael: Kat, in kooper's topic on 3/15 there is a last sentence, I don't quite understand what the author tried to mean.could u take a look and shed some light? Thanks. The sentence is "whatever. At the end of the day I guess there's worse things a women can be than cute and cum laude (I know what cum laude means, though)

Kat: Hi Michael, the last comment is the author trying to make light of the finding by saying that at least she didn't suffer the worse fate, which was being ugly and then getting lower grades as a result. It's probably a bad conclusion to the article, because her sympathy should really lie with the unattractive. "There are worse things than" is a good expression to learn. It can be used to make a bad situation seem better or more bearable.

Luis: 說穿了那作者就是得了便宜還賣乖.. X

Michael: 不過，Luis, 根據Kat的解釋，我們想錯作者的意思了，並不是在說反話，right?

Luis: why not? she is beautiful herself i guess.. 她長得漂亮又成績好可卻認為這是種bad situation不是?? 還是我會錯意??

Michael: She is beautiful, I have her photo, your explanation makes sense, ok, you are right

Stephen Chiu: Is it possible that she is trying to imply that since there are many biases against women, this study's conclusion probably will strengthen one of them, which is that some narrow-minded men think if a beautiful woman gets promotion, there must be something her and the higher management. Yet, compared with this, there is worse .

Michael: Stephen, 你的意思是說作者所謂的worse things 是指漂亮又能力強但是被認為是靠美貌得到的這件事是worse的，is this what you mean?

Stephen Chiu: 是的，因為這份研究報告分析指出女生的美貌有可能使她們拿到較高的分數(而男生卻沒有區別)，可是對具有美貌又有能力且認真工作爬上高位的女性而言，這種研究報告顯然會使她們有被有心人士抹黑的可能 所以，最後作者才說，whatever，反正對女性不公平的偏見比這糟糕的還有許多

Michael: Hmm.....可能Kat的解釋比較接近作者想要表達的，I don't know, I am not sure, Rock在yo yo forum也有答覆這個問題，Luis, what do you think?

Luis: this is actually a good question to discuss.. durning the meeting haa

Michael: But in your opinion, Luis, 你覺得作者指的worse things 是指什麼？

Luis: what do you think are worst things a girl can be, if it's not cute and smart? guess it means what it means. however, that's not the point. the point to me is that the author thinks being cute and smart is not a blessing, and need to compare them with something worse to make it bearable.. XD and she happens to be attractive and smart.. XD

---

After the meeting...
Michael: Wow....so, how about the meaning of the last sentence? How did foreigners say?

Tina: Just.... There are other worse things we should concern about .... Being cute and smart at the same time is really no big deal. Something like that...

[Luis Ko]

though i think i can understand the points the author trying to say, i can't understand some sentences in this article such as,

"If men aren’t dating us because we’re too smart for our own good, then we’re making the grade for expertly applying mascara."

"To determine attractiveness, the researchers established each rater’s baseline bias before showing the photos, which was later subtracted from the ratings assigned to each participant. As it turns out, an increase of one standard deviation in terms of attractiveness for female students was found to correspond with a 0.024 grade increase based on a 4.0 scale."

"The study results can be damaging, too — my bone structure didn’t help me learn Latin conjugations any more in college than my boobs helped me master syntax in graduate school."



by the way, the last sentence is really a good question to discuss oh

[Rock]

Actually, I doubt the research for its method. As the writer mentioned, the researchers studied the 5,000 students and 10,000 grades. But, how do they decide which student is good-looking and which one is not? By photos or interview? Did they use a scientific gauge, or the eyes of the beholder, to value beauty? How come the conclusion of the research seems familiar to me?

Maybe I'm just another skeptic and cynical?

[Michael-liu]

我一直在想, 為何作者在最後要說”Whatever. At the end of the day I guess there’s worse things a woman can be than cute and cum laude.”這句話又到底是什麼意思

看了Kat的解釋之後，以下是我查字典的結果與作者的語意分析

1. Whatever => 表無奈輕蔑的語氣, 中文可翻成”隨便啦!” or “不管了!”

2.At the end of the day => 口語用法, it is used to give your final opinion, 中文可翻成”到頭來” or “不管怎麼說”
例句: Of course I will listen to what she has to say, but at the end of the day, it’s my decision(到頭來, 是我做決定)

3. 作者在文中強調她在學校很努力用功, 成績很好, 但她對這個研究報告不以為然, 所以我們可以推斷, 作者應該是屬於attractive的一群, 否則她就不需要寫這篇不滿的文章

4. 以作者的聰明, 她能猜到有些讀者會想”妳人漂亮成績又好, 還有甚麼好不滿的， 還要覺得被歧視, 真是得了便宜還賣乖”, 所以作者寫這最後一句話的用意在堵這些酸民的嘴, 意思就是” 好啦(無奈), 到頭來我得承認, 我人又cute又cum laude, 應該要知足, 那些不cute 或成績不好的女生比我慘(worse)多了”

5. 作者用”I guess”, 我認為是有點輕蔑的語氣, 不是真心認為那些比她差的女生worse, 我認為是在說反話, 是在嘲諷世俗的看法=>都已經是美女了, 還有甚麼好抱怨的

(如有不同意見者, 歡迎討論與不吝指正)

[Luis Ko]

我一直在想, 為何作者在最後要說”Whatever. At the end of the day I guess there’s worse things a woman can be than cute and cum laude.”這句話又到底是什麼意思

看了Kat的解釋之後，以下是我查字典的結果與作者的語意分析

1. Whatever => 表無奈輕蔑的語氣, 中文可翻成”隨便啦!” or “不管了!”

2.At the end of the day => 口語用法, it is used to give your final opinion, 中文可翻成”到頭來” or “不管怎麼說”
例句: Of course I will listen to what she has to say, but at the end of the day, it’s my decision(到頭來, 是我做決定)

3. 作者在文中強調她在學校很努力用功, 成績很好, 但她對這個研究報告不以為然, 所以我們可以推斷, 作者應該是屬於attractive的一群, 否則她就不需要寫這篇不滿的文章

4. 以作者的聰明, 她能猜到有些讀者會想”妳人漂亮成績又好, 還有甚麼好不滿的， 還要覺得被歧視, 真是得了便宜還賣乖”, 所以作者寫這最後一句話的用意在堵這些酸民的嘴, 意思就是” 好啦(無奈), 到頭來我得承認, 我人又cute又cum laude, 應該要知足, 那些不cute 或成績不好的女生比我慘(worse)多了”

5. 作者用”I guess”, 我認為是有點輕蔑的語氣, 不是真心認為那些比她差的女生worse, 我認為是在說反話, 是在嘲諷世俗的看法=>都已經是美女了, 還有甚麼好抱怨的

(如有不同意見者, 歡迎討論與不吝指正)

我只想問, 有多少人, 或說有多少正常人會覺得一個才貌兼備的女人其實有點慘, 需要有其他更慘的女生來相襯才能讓這才貌兼備的女生覺得好過些??

[Kooper]

Dear YOYOers,

I've added question #3.5 to discuss meaning of the last sentence of the article. Question #6.5 is also added to pick your brains on answers to one of Luis' questions.

[Kooper]

though i think i can understand the points the author trying to say, i can't understand some sentences in this article such as,

"If men aren’t dating us because we’re too smart for our own good, then we’re making the grade for expertly applying mascara."

I think she is trying to say that if smart women don't get dated because of their intimidating intelligence, they could at least make good use of the research findings (because they are smart) and further enhance their grades by making themselves more presentable.

"To determine attractiveness, the researchers established each rater’s baseline bias before showing the photos, which was later subtracted from the ratings assigned to each participant. As it turns out, an increase of one standard deviation in terms of attractiveness for female students was found to correspond with a 0.024 grade increase based on a 4.0 scale."

Removing raters' beauty bias sounds like a good idea. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It not only differs by person but is also biased by the culture they are in. A case in point: if all the raters are of the same nationality, women with the same nationality as them could be biased favorably. After removing the bias, those who got higher rates are truly and universally more attractive. This however leads us to notice a problem that the researchers have failed to deal with: how about the professors' bias? A universally more good-looking woman might not look attractive to the professors if their bias are not taken out and therefore didn't get the bonus grade accordingly.

"The study results can be damaging, too — my bone structure didn’t help me learn Latin conjugations any more in college than my boobs helped me master syntax in graduate school."

The author confused us whenever she was trying to be humorous or sarcastic. I don't know if it is because we ESL learners lack the required cultural contexts to take her jokes or sarcasm or she failed to deliver the messages clearly.

[Tina Sun]

Thanks for Michael's digging. And now I can understand why Kat said it's a bad conclusion to the article. It makes more sensible now.

Luis Ko 寫:
"The study results can be damaging, too — my bone structure didn’t help me learn Latin conjugations any more in college than my boobs helped me master syntax in graduate school."


The author confused us whenever she was trying to be humorous or sarcastic. I don't know if it is because we ESL learners lack the required cultural contexts to take her jokes or sarcasm or she failed to deliver the messages clearly.

I think she simply wanted to point out that it is not 100% correct with this result. Take her for example, her beauty/good-looking (bone structure) didn't provide so much help while she was learning Latin but her bosomy body did. Because I think she focused on the "pretty face/cute" (not good shape/body/figure...) and so was the experiment those economic researchers did. They only saw the photos. (I assume it should be the head shots only...otherwise, the comparing-base will be a lot more complicated and different.)