3/15(Tue) Attractiveness Does Affect Scores... (Host:Kooper)

Luis Ko
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註冊時間: 週三 6月 06, 2007 10:18 pm

Re: 3/15(Tue) Attractiveness Does Affect Scores... (Host:Koo

文章 Luis Ko »

Tina Sun 寫:Thanks for Michael's digging. And now I can understand why Kat said it's a bad conclusion to the article. It makes more sensible now.
Luis Ko 寫:
"The study results can be damaging, too — my bone structure didn’t help me learn Latin conjugations any more in college than my boobs helped me master syntax in graduate school."


The author confused us whenever she was trying to be humorous or sarcastic. I don't know if it is because we ESL learners lack the required cultural contexts to take her jokes or sarcasm or she failed to deliver the messages clearly.
I think she simply wanted to point out that it is not 100% correct with this result. Take her for example, her beauty/good-looking (bone structure) didn't provide so much help while she was learning Latin but her bosomy body did. Because I think she focused on the "pretty face/cute" (not good shape/body/figure...) and so was the experiment those economic researchers did. They only saw the photos. (I assume it should be the head shots only...otherwise, the comparing-base will be a lot more complicated and different.)


firstly, i don't think what Michael said "(4)&(5)" reflects what Kat's opinion that it's a bad conclusion, because i think the author does think those worse things a girl can be is really worse and she bluntly says it out. that's why the conclusion is no good.

secondly, guess neither the author's appearance nor her body figure have helped her learn things.. XD

anyway, we can discuss it more later haa 8)
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
Michael-liu
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註冊時間: 週五 4月 24, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: 3/15(Tue) Attractiveness Does Affect Scores... (Host:Koo

文章 Michael-liu »

Luis Ko 寫:


firstly, i don't think what Michael said "(4)&(5)" reflects what Kat's opinion that it's a bad conclusion, because i think the author does think those worse things a girl can be is really worse and she bluntly says it out. that's why the conclusion is no good.

secondly, guess neither the author's appearance nor her body figure have helped her learn things..
1. The reason I think the last sentence is being sarcastic is that if it is not, then it makes the author contradict herself, and makes the whole article no point. But now i am thinking twice and kind of agree with you, because the author just doesn't agree the attractiveness will get you high score, it doesn't mean she doesn't think being attractive is a good thing

2. I also think the author means that neither her bone structure (身材)nor boobs helped her learn things both in college or graduate school. I will ask Kat about this
Michael-liu
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Re: 3/15(Tue) Attractiveness Does Affect Scores... (Host:Koo

文章 Michael-liu »

Tina Sun 寫: Luis Ko 寫:
"The study results can be damaging, too — my bone structure didn’t help me learn Latin conjugations any more in college than my boobs helped me master syntax in graduate school."

I think she simply wanted to point out that it is not 100% correct with this result. Take her for example, her beauty/good-looking (bone structure) didn't provide so much help while she was learning Latin but her bosomy body did. Because I think she focused on the "pretty face/cute" (not good shape/body/figure...) and so was the experiment those economic researchers did. They only saw the photos. (I assume it should be the head shots only...otherwise, the comparing-base will be a lot more complicated and different.)
我個人認為這個句子應該是這樣理解的:

1. my boobs helped me master syntax in graduate school. => 從常識得知, boobs 是無法 help you master syntax in graduate school

2. my bone structure didn’t help me learn Latin conjugations any more in college than my boobs....=> 我的bone structure (應該是指身材的意思)在Latin文的學習上, 沒有比我的boobs 在master syntax的學習上幫助得更多

3. 既然有1. 的前提 => boobs 無法幫助 you master syntax in graduate school , 所以2.得到推論=> 既然bone structure 沒有比boobs幫助得更多, 所以boobs 無法幫助你學習, 則bone structure 也無法幫助你學習

I will confirm with Kat about my explanation
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Rock
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註冊時間: 週三 10月 31, 2007 9:03 am

Re: 3/15(Tue) Attractiveness Does Affect Scores... (Host:Koo

文章 Rock »

Michael is so darn good at this explanation thing. :o
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Rock
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Re: 3/15(Tue) Attractiveness Does Affect Scores... (Host:Koo

文章 Rock »

I cannot see why the conclusion is not good. She states that a prejudice can be placed on beautiful women, and she happens to be a victim, too. At the end, she says that there are more unhappy things than being cute and cum laude for a woman, so she doesn't want to care about it anymore.

To me, it seems that she understands she is still luckier than other women, and this prejudice thing is not a big problem, comparing with some worse things other women, or herself, may face.

評語:此文淺顯易懂,平易近人。諸君勿想太多,或以強力文法套之,即可發現實乃餅乾一枚。作者美麗聰穎,博學苦讀,而且立意良善,絕無諷刺攻訐之意。請明鑑。
最後由 Rock 於 週二 3月 15, 2016 11:21 pm 編輯,總共編輯了 1 次。
Luis Ko
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註冊時間: 週三 6月 06, 2007 10:18 pm

Re: 3/15(Tue) Attractiveness Does Affect Scores... (Host:Koo

文章 Luis Ko »

Michael-liu 寫:
Tina Sun 寫: Luis Ko 寫:
"The study results can be damaging, too — my bone structure didn’t help me learn Latin conjugations any more in college than my boobs helped me master syntax in graduate school."

I think she simply wanted to point out that it is not 100% correct with this result. Take her for example, her beauty/good-looking (bone structure) didn't provide so much help while she was learning Latin but her bosomy body did. Because I think she focused on the "pretty face/cute" (not good shape/body/figure...) and so was the experiment those economic researchers did. They only saw the photos. (I assume it should be the head shots only...otherwise, the comparing-base will be a lot more complicated and different.)
我個人認為這個句子應該是這樣理解的:

1. my boobs helped me master syntax in graduate school. => 從常識得知, boobs 是無法 help you master syntax in graduate school

2. my bone structure didn’t help me learn Latin conjugations any more in college than my boobs....=> 我的bone structure (應該是指身材的意思)在Latin文的學習上, 沒有比我的boobs 在master syntax的學習上幫助得更多

3. 既然有1. 的前提 => boobs 無法幫助 you master syntax in graduate school , 所以2.得到推論=> 既然bone structure 沒有比boobs幫助得更多, 所以boobs 無法幫助你學習, 則bone structure 也無法幫助你學習

I will confirm with Kat about my explanation

well done. good explanation!

by the way, i googled bone structure and i guess it could mean appearance or the bones under a person's neck, but still no idea if it really means that lo~ :mrgreen:
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
Luis Ko
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註冊時間: 週三 6月 06, 2007 10:18 pm

Re: 3/15(Tue) Attractiveness Does Affect Scores... (Host:Koo

文章 Luis Ko »

Rock 寫:I cannot see why the conclusion is not good. She states that a prejudice can be placed on beautiful women, and she happens to be a victim, too. At the end, she says that there are more unhappy things than being cute and cum laude for a woman, so she doesn't want to care about it anymore.

To me, it seems that she understands she is still luckier than other women, and this prejudice thing is not a big problem, comparing with some worse things other women, or herself, may face.

評語:此文淺顯易懂,平易近人。諸君勿想太多,或以強力文法套之,即可發現實乃餅乾一枚。作者美麗聰穎,博學苦讀,而且立意良善,絕無諷刺攻訐之意。請明鑑。

所以說作者會不知道美麗又聰明其實已經是做為一個人, 不管男人或女人, 天大的幸運了嗎??

最後那一句話更顯示這作者明明就已經知道一個聰明美麗的女人其實已經比其他多數女人的命好的太多了, 卻還大談自己如何受委屈啥的, 最後再強調一下比起其他啥都沒的女人她還是有幸運到.. 就從頭到尾都知道自己是幸運的還抱怨那多, 這不是得了便宜還賣乖??

如果作者不是只拿其他女人, 不要以 cute and cum laude 做為說明她的命已經比別人好多了.. 因為這是不需要多說的道理; 如果作者能以這世界還有其他更不公平的事來說明自己的幸運, 那這樣的結尾我會比較認同.. 都說我是 cynic 了哈哈 8)
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
Tina Sun
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註冊時間: 週三 10月 02, 2013 3:23 pm

Re: 3/15(Tue) Attractiveness Does Affect Scores... (Host:Koo

文章 Tina Sun »

1. YES. I was WRONG!!!! Thanks for correcting me. It seems grammar is really far .....far from me. (sad)

2. Rock's Chinese is so good. So impressive. Haha
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Rock
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Re: 3/15(Tue) Attractiveness Does Affect Scores... (Host:Koo

文章 Rock »

Luis Ko 寫:...如果作者能以這世界還有其他更不公平的事來說明自己的幸運, 那這樣的結尾我會比較認同..
1. Yes, Brother Luis, you are right.
Tina Sun 寫:...Rock's Chinese is so good. So impressive. Haha
2. Thanks, Tina. And you do know that, in the old days, they forced us to memorize things like "A Funeral Essay for my Sister" and "The Poem of Mulan", right?
Luis Ko
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Re: 3/15(Tue) Attractiveness Does Affect Scores... (Host:Koo

文章 Luis Ko »

haa~ it's not because i'm right. it's because i'm a cynic and, a sceptic la~ haaa :lol:
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
Iris Wu
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註冊時間: 週二 5月 20, 2014 4:33 pm

Re: 3/15(Tue) Attractiveness Does Affect Scores... (Host:Koo

文章 Iris Wu »

Rock 寫:I cannot see why the conclusion is not good. She states that a prejudice can be placed on beautiful women, and she happens to be a victim, too. At the end, she says that there are more unhappy things than being cute and cum laude for a woman, so she doesn't want to care about it anymore.
To me, it seems that she understands she is still luckier than other women, and this prejudice thing is not a big problem, comparing with some worse things other women, or herself, may face.
評語:此文淺顯易懂,平易近人。諸君勿想太多,或以強力文法套之,即可發現實乃餅乾一枚。作者美麗聰穎,博學苦讀,而且立意良善,絕無諷刺攻訐之意。請明鑑。
如果不是作者美麗聰穎, Rock 可能不會說她 『立意良善,絕無諷刺攻訐之意』! Ha! (我想,如果作者長相平庸可能被說成 『酸葡萄主義』了! )
Rock, Rock, 子非作者, 焉知其立意! (OK, don't reply to me, “子非我,安知我不知魚之樂” :) )

Seriously, I think Stephen was right about the article in the first place on LINE post, and I totally agreed with Rock's comments above, except the last statement, “而且立意良善,絕無諷刺攻訐之意”, because I have no idea what her true intention is, don't want to speculate it!

Luis contemplated the author's comments about “the worse thing than cute and cum laude”, but actually, if just put in the context of “her complaint about the prejudice being placed on those pretty with intelligence women”, she understands that this prejudice thing is not big deal. So, no need to speculate the author's intention, because she has concluded herself, it (her argument) is pointless.
"此文淺顯易懂...實乃餅乾一枚" is a very good conclusion! Haha!
Luis Ko
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Re: 3/15(Tue) Attractiveness Does Affect Scores... (Host:Koo

文章 Luis Ko »

agree!! then again, i just DOUBT that she really knows it's pointless haaa~ :lol:

by the way, as to the sentence, "To determine attractiveness, the researchers established each rater’s baseline bias before showing the photos, which was later subtracted from the ratings assigned to each participant.", i really don't get the situation that the bias is subtracted from the ratings assigned to participants. why is it assigned to participants? the ratings are supposed to be on students, aren't it? what is the exact situation here? @@
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
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Rock
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Re: 3/15(Tue) Attractiveness Does Affect Scores... (Host:Koo

文章 Rock »

One thing those academic people are good at is making simple things confusing. You've had it right. Don't think too much, unless you want to be one of them. :lol:
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Rock
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Re: 3/15(Tue) Attractiveness Does Affect Scores... (Host:Koo

文章 Rock »

Iris Wu 寫: ...如果不是作者美麗聰穎, Rock 可能不會說她 『立意良善,絕無諷刺攻訐之意』! Ha!...
You got me.... Sigh, it's hard to defend someone who is cute and cum laude. I guess I could write something similar to her article now. :lol:

Hey, Iris, long time no see.
tashi
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註冊時間: 週二 11月 03, 2015 11:07 pm

Re: 3/15(Tue) Attractiveness Does Affect Scores... (Host:Koo

文章 tashi »

Attendees:

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