4/22(Sat.) The Value of Genetic Affinity (Host:Stephen)

Re: 4/22(Sat.) The Value of Genetic Affinity (Host:Stephen)

文章Rock » 週五 4月 21, 2017 4:59 pm

Luis Ko 寫:contradiction? no way, because logic is may middle name~ :P
...

Hey, Iris, good job for making Luis on fire! I like it so much. Now he even has a middle name! Cool, super cool!!!

I want to join your fight, here under this thread and in the meeting. I need to think carefully, though. Because Contradiction is my last name. My dad passed it to me. Genetic tragedy. :ccry:
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
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Re: 4/22(Sat.) The Value of Genetic Affinity (Host:Stephen)

文章Rock » 週五 4月 21, 2017 5:06 pm

Iris Wu 寫:Wow! Rock's boss, that is our boss' boss! We'd better show our proper etiquette and good manners to him, otherwise Rock may lose his job! :)



Losing my job may not be a good thing. But it cannot be done by doing anything to my boss, because it's up to my boss' boss' boss' boss.
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
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Re: 4/22(Sat.) The Value of Genetic Affinity (Host:Stephen)

文章Rock » 週五 4月 21, 2017 5:11 pm

stephen185 寫:Rock, we will definitely show our proper etiquette by yielding him a lot of time to share his opinion. I hope my "brain-racking" questions won't scare him away....

His major is biology so I guess this topic won't scare him. English is the thing that scares him to death. He said that he studied the article for the whole evening yesterday, with the help of google translation. Haha, he is in trouble, isn't he? :lol:
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Re: 4/22(Sat.) The Value of Genetic Affinity (Host:Stephen)

文章Luis Ko » 週五 4月 21, 2017 8:16 pm

ah~ guess people might not get my reply, it's really easier said than written.. XD

ok, got to admit waffle is also my middle name.. XDDD
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
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Re: 4/22(Sat.) The Value of Genetic Affinity (Host:Stephen)

文章Iris Wu » 週五 4月 21, 2017 11:48 pm

Luis Logic Ko, Rock Contradiction sounds perfectly fit! I got a new first name, too, "Naive"! :D
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Re: 4/22(Sat.) The Value of Genetic Affinity (Host:Stephen)

文章Kooper » 週六 4月 22, 2017 10:53 am

4. Is there any other way that you can think of to compensate the couple's loss of genetic affinity or to resolve the issue other than granting pecuniary reparation?

This is exactly the type of case where gene editing could help - edit the kid's gene and add back some gene codes of the father to improve genetic affinity. The problem here is does it make sense to solve one controversy through a treatment that itself is controversial? :shock:
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Re: 4/22(Sat.) The Value of Genetic Affinity (Host:Stephen)

文章Kooper » 週六 4月 22, 2017 1:16 pm

Iris Wu 寫:I see the contradiction here. On one thread, you were defending human beings with free will, and here you condemned people playing God! So are human being tryng to be God at their free will? So what is God doing? Oh, I know. HE (the Almighty) is giving human beings the "free will" to think they should not play God! :)

Cool Iris. You caught Luis off-guard. His later argument was hardly organized. I can tell that Luis was in mayhem. :wink:
Iris Wu 寫:We surely know the technology evolution in human history bring us benefits and disasters, and I mean a same invention, say the dynamite Alfred Nobel invented, on the one hand, it's a deadly weapon, very unethical when using it in killing, but on the other hand, it was used mostly for bridge and many peaceful construction. Do or should we stop making it? We can always argue that God created mountains and rivers to stop us, and so human beings should not play God to destroy them! That would be good argument and we would all still stay in the age of cavemen! To be honest, I kind of like it, too! Civilization does not bring all the happiness to people, right? :)

Well said!
Iris Wu 寫:Looking back, human evolution has always had all kinds of contractions. Genetic engineering is just one of them. "But you know, life is difficult. Handle it!" I am probably a little bit more optimistic in terms of giving credit to human wisdom.

Did you mean contradictions here?
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Re: 4/22(Sat.) The Value of Genetic Affinity (Host:Stephen)

文章Luis Ko » 週六 4月 22, 2017 1:32 pm

“parents have an interest in having children with whom they share symbolically identifying traits”.

“not about the misplaced sperm as such, but about certain superficial features of the misplaced sperm.“

“it’s about consciously choosing to create a child by a mixing of this mother’s egg with this father’s sperm, producing a child with half the DNA of each parent.“

“adoption’s value derives in part from its consensual nature.“



hi Kooper, actually i have never been well organized. that's why "waffle" is also my middle name ahhh~ :lol:
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
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Re: 4/22(Sat.) The Value of Genetic Affinity (Host:Stephen)

文章Iris Wu » 週六 4月 22, 2017 2:30 pm

Kooper 寫:
Iris Wu 寫:Looking back, human evolution has always had all kinds of contractions. Genetic engineering is just one of them. "But you know, life is difficult. Handle it!" I am probably a little bit more optimistic in terms of giving credit to human wisdom.

Did you mean contradictions here?

Yes, Kooper, thanks for pointing out the mistake! It was all Stephen's fault, my brain was stuck with all those DNA, RNA and CRISPR Cas9 buzzwords and could not spell a normal word correctly.

And Luis to blame, too! I had to untangle the thoughts on "what is my free will and what is God's will", so the whole week I have been in the throes of this insane contradiction! :roll:

Seriously, following is pretty good panel discussion on the applications of CRISPR in many fields:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nimj6SNPq-o
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Re: 4/22(Sat.) The Value of Genetic Affinity (Host:Stephen)

文章Kooper » 週六 4月 22, 2017 2:38 pm

I’m not a past master in law so feel free to correct me if my comments are wrong. I think laws in Taiwan until now still place the responsibility of bringing up a kid on who gave birth to the baby rather than who the baby inherits their genes from. As such, the couple is by law obliged to raise the child into adulthood. We could however argue that jurisdiction always falls behind technological advances and current regulations barely take the applications of genetic engineering into account.

Law aside, it was of the couple’s free will to undergo an artificial conception. They are also the ones who chose Thomson Medical, and who decided to have a shot notwithstanding all the risks involved - as the article pointed out, there had been some mishandling cases happening around the globe beforehand. They were supposed to be aware of the risks of the medical operation. Above all, completing the 10-month childbearing to me amounts to making a life-long commitment to the new-born baby, no matter how much and how likely the baby’s genes could go wrong.

Other than the values of genetic affinity and family life, there is a third value formed during pregnancy. The parent-to-be, in particular the mother-to-be, could form a strong sensational bind with their unborn baby. And there is a strong commitment in it. Both are of crucial values. Childbearing lasts almost a year. It is a mixture of hope and anxiety, excitement and discomfort, all kinds of pleasant and unpleasant events or feelings. Pregnant women experiences significant changes in appearance and mind. It requires strong commitment, persistence and some luck to complete the process safely.
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Re: 4/22(Sat.) The Value of Genetic Affinity (Host:Stephen)

文章stephen185 » 週六 4月 22, 2017 10:03 pm

Attendees:
Iris, John(new comer), Eileen, Tashi, Michael, Kooper, Rock, Danny, Jeffery, Jason, Jessica, David Jr., Gloria, Ramesh, Luis.

Although the questions are tormenting to answer and it's a rainy afternoon, there were more than a dozen of yoyoers showing up at the meeting.
I would like to express my admiration for your perseverance and gratitude for your support. I hope you found some joys besides the throes and agonies you might experience during the meeting. (Is there a contradiction in the last sentence...??? )
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Re: 4/22(Sat.) The Value of Genetic Affinity (Host:Stephen)

文章stephen185 » 週六 4月 22, 2017 10:31 pm

Hi, Michael,
The response of a woman to the IVF mix‐ups in a newspaper that I quoted on the concluding slide (also shown below) is from the following article: "Who is a parent? Parenthood in Islamic ethics." ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652801/ )

A woman reacting to the IVF mix‐ups in a newspaper, in response to suggestion that the absence of genetic link with the child debars one of the claimants as mother to the child:
"So how can I guarantee that they really are part of my family? Because I gave birth to them, fed them, and I am rearing them to the best of my ability. There is nothing that can make them more our children. If I discovered that, in fact, they were the result of a stranger's egg being accidentally lodged in the pipette that re‐implanted my own, it would, of course, cause some heartache. But it would not—could not—make them less mine."
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Re: 4/22(Sat.) The Value of Genetic Affinity (Host:Stephen)

文章Gloria Lo » 週二 4月 25, 2017 12:01 pm

Stephen,
Thank you for providing the article that benefits my sleep a lot. :oops: :oops:
Kooper suggested me to keep it beside my bed.

By the way, would you please paste here the paragraph which is very touching on the ending piece of your powerpoint? I want to cry again..... :ccry:

Very meaniful topic, and handsome host :lol: :lol: :lol: Thank you.
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Re: 4/22(Sat.) The Value of Genetic Affinity (Host:Stephen)

文章stephen185 » 週二 4月 25, 2017 10:50 pm

Hi, Gloria, here you go.

"So how can I guarantee that they really are part of my family? Because I gave birth to them, fed them, and I am rearing them to the best of my ability. There is nothing that can make them more our children. If I discovered that, in fact, they were the result of a stranger's egg being accidentally lodged in the pipette that re‐implanted my own, it would, of course, cause some heartache. But it would not—could not—make them less mine."
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Re: 4/22(Sat.) The Value of Genetic Affinity (Host:Stephen)

文章Rock » 週三 4月 26, 2017 9:39 am

I read a story some time ago.

A woman, who was raped when she was young, gave birth to a baby girl.

She suffered a lot from the cruelty of the world: people looked down on her, and her family wanted her to give away the baby. But she just couldn't bear to see the innocent child to be an orphan. With tears, she managed to raise the girl. The daughter married a man and had some kids later.

She had a happy life, but she always felt guilty somehow because "her father" was the raper, and she was born from the tragedy. She knew her mother was brave, but she didn't know if she had overcome the trauma.

At a family gathering, she finally took some courage and asked her mom if she still hate the father.

The old woman laughed, "Hate? No, not at all. I've let it go long time ago," She looked at her daughter and the kids playing around, and sighed, "I do feel sorry for him. He has a lovely daughter and 3 beautiful grand-children, but he doesn't have the luck to know them."
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