2/3 (Sat.) Minimum Wage and the Low Salary (Host: Sherry)

2/3 (Sat.) Minimum Wage and the Low Salary (Host: Sherry)

文章Sherry Liao » 週二 1月 30, 2018 1:10 pm

Dear YOYOs,

A few weeks ago, two restaurants of Tim Hortons, Canada's largest quick service restaurant chain, cut paid breaks and other worker benefits of their employees, in response to the rise of Ontario's minimum wage. Later, more Tim Hortons franchisees followed suit:



As we face a similar situation about conflict between capital and labor, I would like to have your opinions about the economic realities and the protection of labor rights in Taiwan. Articles from the following links are only for your reference. You don’t need to read all of them (or any of them) to join the discussion:

Tim Hortons heirs cut paid breaks and worker benefits after minimum wage hike, employees say (1/3/2018)
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tim-hor ... -1.4470215

President Tsai cites ideal minimum wage as NT$30,000 (12/25/2017)
http://english.rti.org.tw/news/?recordId=79860

Taiwan's Biggest Problem is Pay, Not Hours (12/22/2017)
https://international.thenewslens.com/article/86113

Taiwan Is Suffering From a Massive Brain Drain and the Main Beneficiary is China (8/21/2017)
http://time.com/4906162/taiwan-brain-dr ... s-economy/

Taiwan Becomes More Competitive As Wages Go Down (10/24/2012)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesasia ... ad8983299b

Taiwan’s ‘Grim Truth’: Vicious Low Wage, Low Productivity Cycle Crippling Workers and Companies (8/21/2017)
https://international.thenewslens.com/article/76776

Questions for discussion:
Session I

Q1: Why do we need a law on minimum wage? Assuming that workers should receive enough resources to survive, who should be responsible for it: the employers or the taxpayers?
Q2: Would raising the minimum wage have “adverse” consequences of the welfare of workers, the availability of jobs, or economics as a whole? What are the benefits and drawbacks of raising the minimum wage?
Q3: If you were a policy maker and had to determine the wage floor from three levels: a) 30 percent; b) 50 percent; c) 70 percent of the local median wage. Which one would you choose and what are your reasons for that?
Q4: Are you with or against minimum wage? Should the current minimum wage be increased or decreased? What is your stand?

Session II
Q5: In April last year, Pxmart’s then-President Hsu Chung-jen (徐重仁) said that young people should "tolerate rather than complain about low pay" and that they were "spending too much money" . What is your comment on that?
Q6: In your opinions, what are the main causes of wage stagnation and low salary in Taiwan?
Q7. Do you agree that Taiwan is becoming more competitive with wages lag, as the cost of doing business in China and other Asian peers is growing?
Q8: Would you opt to work abroad for a higher salary? What are the reasons that make you move or stay? Would you encourage Taiwan’s young generations to move overseas for better job opportunities?

********************************************************************************************************************************************
Agenda:
3:45 ~ 4:00pm Greetings & Free Talk / Ordering Beverage or Meal / Getting Newcomer’s Information
4:00 ~ 4:10pm Opening Remarks / Newcomer’s Self-introduction / Grouping
(Session I)
4:10 ~ 4:50pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
4:50 ~ 5:10pm Summarization (20 mins)
5:10 ~ 5:15pm Regrouping / Instruction Giving / Taking a 10 Minutes Break (Intermission)
(Session II)
5:15 ~ 5:55pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
6:00 ~ 6:20pm Summarization (20 mins)
6:20 ~ 6:30pm Concluding Remarks / Announcements ********************************************************************************************************************************************
聚會日期:列於該貼文主題內
聚會時間:請準時 4:00 pm 到 ~ 約 6:30 pm 左右結束
星期六聚會地點:丹堤濟南店
地址、電話:台北市濟南路三段25號 地圖 (02) 2740-2350
捷運站:板南線 忠孝新生站 3 號出口
走法:出忠孝新生站 3 號出口後,沿著巷子(忠孝東路三段10巷)走約 2 分鐘,到了濟南路口,左轉走約 2 分鐘即可看到。
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注意事項:
1. 文章是否需要列印請自行斟酌,但與會者請務必自行列印 Questions for discussion。
2. 與會者請先閱讀過文章,並仔細想過所有的問題,謝謝合作!


給新朋友的話:
1. 請事先準備2~3分鐘的英語自我介紹;會議結束前可能會請你發表1~2分鐘的感想。
2. 請事先閱讀文章以及主持人所提的討論問題,並事先寫下自己所欲發表意見的英文。
3. 全程以英語進行,參加者應具備中等英語會話能力,對任一討論問題,能夠以5到10句英文表達個人見解。
4. 在正式加入之前,可以先來觀摩三次,觀摩者亦須參與討論。正式加入需繳交終身會費 NT$1,000。
Sherry Liao
YOYO member
 
文章: 1389
註冊時間: 週五 12月 07, 2007 12:15 pm

Re: 2/3 (Sat.) Minimum Wage and the Low Salary (Host: Sherr

文章Rock » 週三 1月 31, 2018 11:25 pm

I guess few employees would complain if the law said we have a higher minimum wage, especially for those workers on the lower-paid end. Is it good to the economy or will it force the business owners to leave Taiwan? It's hard to tell.

But, does minimum wage really matter the most? I don't think so. Actually, 22K is enough for many people to live in Taiwan, even in Taipei, as long as they have their own apartment. The problem is: a large portion of their income goes to the rent or mortgage, and the soaring housing price will cost more than a person's lifetime.
http://www.bbc.com/zhongwen/trad/taiwan_letters/2014/10/141002_twletter_snails_property_price

President Tasi said that the ideal minimum wage is NT.30,000 per month, which is ridiculously high to many. However, even if her idea came true, would people really benefit from it? Inflation will make everything more expensive, the rent and housing price will go up further. In the end, who is stealing our money? :shock:
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
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Rock
Vice President
 
文章: 1814
註冊時間: 週三 10月 31, 2007 9:03 am

Re: 2/3 (Sat.) Minimum Wage and the Low Salary (Host: Sherr

文章Iris Wu » 週六 2月 03, 2018 10:16 am

I cannot help thinking about the slogan, “It’s economy, stupid!”
When economy is thriving, everything is honky-donkey; when economy is sluggish, nothing escapes being blamed. Economy is complicated, it’s hardly a result of a single factor. Low wage made our products very competitive, but when did Taiwan lose its edge because of the low salary? What went wrong with the same “strategy” (if that is a deliberate method)?

I would say when the low salary was the sharp side of the sword, we (the whole country) accumulated wealth, the hard earned wealth, but there has been little vision and leadership to drive the uplift of the economy (because of political tug wars?) and the way we made fortune was by OEM, by low profit margin products, we have long been used to “doing/making” stuff but not “creating/inventing” new stuff because it’s too risky. Then, when low wage was no longer competitive, manufacturing had to move away and there wasn’t much incentive to innovate, to advance and to leap, the business leaders might just stay put. The whole society seems to have been stagnate.

I agree one thing Rock mentioned, the quality of life in this island is above many other countries, which we have hard time to quantify and factor into our “salary/income” consideration. So “low salary” is an easy target, but the things we enjoy in our daily life seem to be taken for granted. I wonder if we should give our governments some credits for the good work they have done internally, the living environment, healthcare systems and the safety of the society, etc. Are these the byproducts of political tug wars as well?

As for the soaring housing price, it is everywhere, even the developing countries, such as Cambodia and Myanmar, the rent and price of apartment in the city is something more extreme than that in Taipei. I think a competent government should establish good public housing projects to ease the situation.

The subjects (minimum wage, pension, etc.) are sensitive; many of arguments could be taken into political war of words. I'll save it and just talk in the meeting and leave no trace. :)
Iris Wu
YOYO member
 
文章: 530
註冊時間: 週二 5月 20, 2014 4:33 pm

Re: 2/3 (Sat.) Minimum Wage and the Low Salary (Host: Sherr

文章Rock » 週六 2月 03, 2018 10:32 pm

Yeah, Iris, I agree with you. Our war-tugging two-party government did achieve some good things which are better than some countries. We should be grateful or happiness will never be with us.

As for the everywhere soaring housing price, even in Cambodia and Myanmar, I can only say that they have more serious "problems". The only government I know which is solving the problem is China.
從中國大陸打房政策來看臺灣政府效能(2017/7/25)
https://khae.org/blog/?p=288
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
頭像
Rock
Vice President
 
文章: 1814
註冊時間: 週三 10月 31, 2007 9:03 am

Re: 2/3 (Sat.) Minimum Wage and the Low Salary (Host: Sherr

文章Kooper » 週六 3月 03, 2018 11:26 pm

Attendees(17): Alex(member), Amy, Gloria, Iris, Jay, Joseph, Kooper, Leon, Ramesh, Rock, Ryu, Sherry, Stephen, Steve, Tim, Vincent, Way
Kooper
Vice President
 
文章: 2335
註冊時間: 週三 4月 11, 2007 11:40 pm


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