04/10 (Tue) Schadenfreude (Host: Janice)

04/10 (Tue) Schadenfreude (Host: Janice)

文章Janice Wang » 週二 4月 03, 2018 10:35 pm

This is Janice, your host for the meeting on 04/10.

“Schadenfreude” - finding joy in the misfortune of others, is the topic for the upcoming gathering.

As an avid sports fan, I always feel exhilarated from a paramount win of the teams or players that I root for; however, a significant stumble or loss from the rivalries of my favorites can become the highlights of my day as well. Is it a feeling of schadenfreude? What do you think about schadenfreude? Is it natural? Is it normal? Let’s take two sessions to delve into “schadenfreude” and see how it comes into play in our life.

Here you go and enjoy!

A brief from Wiki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude
Schadenfreude (/ˈʃɑːdənfrɔɪdə/; German: [ˈʃaːdn̩ˌfʁɔʏ̯də] ;lit. 'harm-joy') is the experience of pleasure, joy, or self-satisfaction that comes from learning of or witnessing the troubles, failures, or humiliation of another.

There are no other words that can perfectly depict this specific feeling like “schadenfreude” does according to wiki.

Session I Is schadenfreude natural?

Reference clip: https://www.instagram.com/p/BbtzIPuFHjl ... -by=fanfan

Questions for session I

1a) What is your take on schadenfreude? Is it common amongst us? Are you able to detect the “schadenfreude” happening around you?
1b) Do you consider it a kind of bullying? Do you think it is immoral or detrimental that needs to be avoided or even punished? Why and how?

2a) In your opinion, are the kids’ laughing at the nanny’s misfortune considered schadenfreude in the video clip? (The twins’ mom did say “schadenfreude ” in Mandarin幸災樂禍 in response to one of the boys laughing hilariously at his dad’s prank.)
2b) Is schadenfreude natural?
2c) What would you do if you were the parents?

3)Empathy, the opposite emotion to schadenfreude.
3a) Is empathy innate?
3b) Why didn’t such young, innocent, and untainted toddlers exhibit the emotion of empathy instead in the clip?
Do you think schadenfreude is more natural and irresistible to display than empathy while encountering such incident? Why? Does this have anything to do with human nature where evil overpowers benevolent?

4a) Do you think gender, age, personality, or even culture have a part in people demonstrating schadenfreude and empathy differently?
4b) Can schadenfreude be suppressed by any measures? Can empathy be cultivated by any means? How?


Session II Is schadenfreude normal?
(The article is a commentary, by a science writer for Science Times, on a book related to schadenfreude, The Joy of Pain.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/24/scien ... .html?_r=0

Questions for session II

1a) A sentence from the article, “When envy invokes pain, schadenfreude provides a potent antidote”. Do you agree that schadenfreude somehow remedies one’s pain or even brings joy? Do you consider schadenfreude a normal reaction?
1b)Aside from envy, what other factors may trigger schadenfreude?
1c) What kind of quality in a person could make them become schadenfreude-prone or a frequent recipient of schadenfreude?

2) One appealing statement regarding schadenfreude in the article, “the most basic conflict in the human psyche - the friction between our selfish impulses and self-control “, paint a picture of human beings getting caught in the crossfire of an inner tug of war between savagery and empathy while encountering an incident.
2a) Is it possible that the tug of war never existed in any case? For example, in a toxic political environment, we hardly see any politicians exhibit “empathy” towards their rivals.
2b) Is it possible for a person to display a mixture of both schadenfreude and empathy towards the same incident? Any example?
2c) Do you think schadenfreude can be exhibited amongst loved ones or family members?

3)The last paragraph indicates that there is no need to demonize schadenfreude; and it is acceptable to experience schadenfreude , so long as it remains passive.
3a) What is your interpretation of “ so long as it remains passive”? Any example?
3b) In your recollections, have you or someone you know ever experienced schadenfreude that you are free to share? Or is there any schadenfreude ever a justified case to you?

4) Humans are emotional beings, and our emotions are often inextricably intertwined with people, events, and circumstances around us.
4a) When was the last time your emotions got the better of you, feel free to share if you’d like.
4b) How do you remain cool from negative emotional entanglements? How do you usually channel your negative emotion and turn it into your greatest advantage?


***********************************************************************************************************************************
Agenda:
6:45 ~ 7:00pm Greetings & Free Talk / Ordering Beverage or Meal / Getting Newcomer’s Information
7:00 ~ 7:10pm Opening Remarks / Newcomer’s Self-introduction / Grouping
(Session I)
7:10 ~ 7:50pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
7:50 ~ 8:10pm Summarization (20 mins)
8:10 ~ 8:25pm Regrouping / Instruction Giving / Taking a 10 Minutes Break (Intermission)
(Session II)
8:25 ~ 9:05pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
9:05 ~ 9:25pm Summarization (20 mins)
9:25 ~ 9:30pm Concluding Remarks / Announcements ********************************************************************************************************************************************
聚會日期:列於該貼文主題內
聚會時間:當天請準時於 6:45 pm 到達 ~ 約 9:30 pm 左右結束
星期二聚會地點:丹堤濟南店
地址、電話:台北市濟南路三段25號 (02) 2740-2350
捷運站:板南線 忠孝新生站 3 號出口
走法:出忠孝新生站 3 號出口後,沿著巷子(忠孝東路三段10巷)走約 2 分鐘,到了濟南路口,左轉走約 2 分鐘即可看到。
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Janice Wang
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Re: 04/10 (Tue) Schadenfreude (Host: Janice)

文章Georgia » 週一 4月 09, 2018 2:17 pm

This meeting must be filled with fun. : )
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Re: 04/10 (Tue) Schadenfreude (Host: Janice)

文章Janice Wang » 週一 4月 09, 2018 8:37 pm

Georgia, thanks a lot for writing the pitch for tomorrow’s meeting, it brought up the visibility of my post. Let’s hope the work backlog after the long holidays won’t hold back the turnout so we can have a lot of fun.
Janice Wang
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Re: 04/10 (Tue) Schadenfreude (Host: Janice)

文章Kooper » 週一 4月 09, 2018 11:33 pm

It boggled my mind just by looking at subjects of the two sessions – is it natural vs. is it normal? My first response went like: Aren’t they the same question? Luckily, with the help of the Google and after racking my brains to think of what I ever read from the book Sapiens, I finally managed to scratch a bit of the surface about their differences.

In short, the culture we are in decides what is normal. Since the social norm differs from culture to culture and in a similar way it varies with time, what is viewed as normal nowadays by locals could become totally eccentric in the eye of our ancestors or foreigners. On the flip side, any behavior that is biologically possible to be done by the creature Homo sapiens, aka humans, should be considered natural. A case in point, it is NOT natural for a man to give birth to babies.
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Re: 04/10 (Tue) Schadenfreude (Host: Janice)

文章Rock » 週二 4月 10, 2018 8:28 am

Some people can be naturally not normal. :lol:
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
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Re: 04/10 (Tue) Schadenfreude (Host: Janice)

文章Janice Wang » 週二 4月 10, 2018 9:55 am

Kooper, you brought up a good point and thank you for the great explanation! I wish I read the book, Sapiens, so I could determinedly title the sessions' subjects without going through the same mind-boggling path like you!

To me, ‘normal’ is very subjective, whereas ‘natural’ is more instinctive. Moreover, ‘normal’ can change with time, culture and based on people's perception. However, ‘natural’ most likely stick with people as it is how our body/mind naturally react to things. Taking the video of the twins I provided as an example - them laughing at the prank their dad pulled is considered to be normal for most of us as that is how we would normally react to such prank; however, given their age and innocence, is this considered a natural reaction? That is the quintessential core of the meeting - Is schadenfreude just a natural reaction for us to laugh at others' misfortune or do we normalize the action and the feeling of schadenfreude?

Looking forward to hearing everyone’s insight in today’s meeting.
最後由 Janice Wang 於 週三 4月 18, 2018 12:02 pm 編輯,總共編輯了 1 次。
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Re: 04/10 (Tue) Schadenfreude (Host: Janice)

文章Janice Wang » 週二 4月 10, 2018 10:03 am

Rock,
How about one naturally abnormal example? Let’s say, Donald Trump, US President, using twitter to express his opinions on policies and announce staff changes is completely abnormal to other leaders, but normal to himself and his stalwart supporters. The way he conducts business as a president seems to be naturally abnormal to a lot of people. Does it make sense?
Janice Wang
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Re: 04/10 (Tue) Schadenfreude (Host: Janice)

文章wenhan1122 » 週二 4月 10, 2018 2:18 pm

Hi Janice,

I am not sure if I read it right, but judged from the first footage, the circumstance looked to me was gloating not schadenfreud.....

Wen-han
The real peace is not merely the absence of warfare, but the presence of justice
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Re: 04/10 (Tue) Schadenfreude (Host: Janice)

文章Janice Wang » 週二 4月 10, 2018 6:11 pm

Wenhan,

Good to read your point of view. As a host, deciding on an appealing topic title to grab your attention is always something equally as important as preparing some discussable questions. Hope ‘schadenfreude ‘ does the trick!

Both ‘gloating’ and ‘schadenfreude’ are similar, but slightly differentiated from one another. Please allow me to shed some light on the difference based on Cambridge dictionary as follows. In addition, the ig clip directly referenced ‘schadenfreude ‘ as opposed to ‘gloating’.

Gloat, verb, to feel or express great pleasure or satisfaction because of your own success or good luck, or someone else's failure or bad luck.
(因自己的成功或好運而)沾沾自喜;(因別人的失敗或壞運而)幸災樂禍

Schadenfreude, noun, a feeling of pleasure or satisfaction when something bad happens to someone else 幸災樂禍

I hardly sensed the feeling of success or good luck from anyone in the footage, but they seemed to be thoroughly enjoying themselves from the nanny's misfortune.
最後由 Janice Wang 於 週三 4月 11, 2018 11:54 am 編輯,總共編輯了 1 次。
Janice Wang
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Re: 04/10 (Tue) Schadenfreude (Host: Janice)

文章wenhan1122 » 週二 4月 10, 2018 6:35 pm

Hi Janice,

Thanks for your answer. I was asking this for the subtle differences explained by wikipedia which you referred to.

"An English word of similar meaning is "gloating", where "gloat" means "to observe or think about something with triumphant and often malicious satisfaction, gratification, or delight" (e.g., to gloat over an enemy's misfortune).[15] Gloating is differentiated from Schadenfreude in that it does not necessarily require malice (one may gloat to a friend about having defeated him in a game without ill intent), and that it describes an action rather than a state of mind (one typically gloats to the subject of the misfortune or to a third party). On the other hand, unlike Schadenfreude, where the focus is on another's misfortune, gloating often brings to mind inappropriately celebrating or bragging about one's own good fortune without any particular focus on the misfortune of others."

I thought the kids' action laughing on someone's misfortune without illicit state of mind fits aforementioned gloating definition. But just my two cents.

Wen-han
The real peace is not merely the absence of warfare, but the presence of justice
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Re: 04/10 (Tue) Schadenfreude (Host: Janice)

文章Gloria Lo » 週三 4月 11, 2018 7:50 am

:lol:

Attendees:
Brian, Kat, Shirley, Katie, Kary, Sophie, Iris, Rock, Honey, Ryu, Ellen, Georgia, Vicky, Light, Tashi, Yaya, Luis, Wen-hen, Ryan, Sally, Janice, David, John, Tina, Gloria

Newcomers:
Ian, Eaprica, Christine


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: 04/10 (Tue) Schadenfreude (Host: Janice)

文章Janice Wang » 週三 4月 11, 2018 11:39 am

wenhan1122 寫:Hi Janice,

Thanks for your answer. I was asking this for the subtle differences explained by wikipedia which you referred to.

"An English word of similar meaning is "gloating", where "gloat" means "to observe or think about something with triumphant and often malicious satisfaction, gratification, or delight" (e.g., to gloat over an enemy's misfortune).[15] Gloating is differentiated from Schadenfreude in that it does not necessarily require malice (one may gloat to a friend about having defeated him in a game without ill intent), and that it describes an action rather than a state of mind (one typically gloats to the subject of the misfortune or to a third party). On the other hand, unlike Schadenfreude, where the focus is on another's misfortune, gloating often brings to mind inappropriately celebrating or bragging about one's own good fortune without any particular focus on the misfortune of others."

I thought the kids' action laughing on someone's misfortune without illicit state of mind fits aforementioned gloating definition. But just my two cents.

Wen-han




Wenhan, let’s sideline both wiki and Cambridge dictionary for a while, and focus on the example we brought up in the meeting of you bumping into a glass door (knock on wood it won’t happen -ko ko ko!) to analyze how bystanders would describe their reaction as - either ‘gloat’ or ‘schadenfreude ‘.

The reaction to the hypothetical scenario would arguably lean more towards “schadenfreude “ rather than ‘gloat‘ as it does not involve any level of “superiority”, but more of a feeling of the misfortune of the situation, which was similar to the referenced ig clip I provided.

The excerpt you pasted from wiki regarding the synonym between those two words was the part I intentionally shelved; as it varies slightly from most of the other resources I researched. Undoubtedly, Wiki is a good and indispensable source of reference but as it is made available for the general public to edit any of the information, I often do not rely solely on wiki when possible.

Nevertheless, your answer is absolutely acceptable to my designed question as it was opened for interpretation by everyone in the meeting.

Cheers! Wenhan, a good-humored and generous soul!
Janice Wang
YOYO member
 
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