8/21 (Tue) Is Eating Animals Necessary? (Host: Ellen)

8/21 (Tue) Is Eating Animals Necessary? (Host: Ellen)

文章ellenlin » 週六 8月 18, 2018 3:20 am

Is Eating Animals Necessary?

This is a topic I am interested in discussing. It is about ‘Carnism’ & ‘Veganism’, which has been brought up in YOYO before, but I would like to address the questions a bit differently.

Carnism and Its Consequences (2:46)


Toward Rational, Authentic Food Choices | Melanie Joy | TEDxMünchen (18:52)


What If The World Went Vegetarian? (3:46)


Shattering The Meat Myth: Humans Are Natural Vegetarians
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-fr ... 14390.html

Sorry Vegans: Here's How Meat-Eating Made Us Human
http://time.com/4252373/meat-eating-veganism-evolution/


Questions for Discussion

Session 1:

Q1: Why are there so many people against eating dog meat, but few against eating pork, beef, and chicken? On the other hand, why aren't we disgusted by the select(ed) species (e.g. cow, pig, lamb, chicken, fish) that we have learned to think of as edible?

Q2: It has been debated that humans are natural vegetarians/meat-eaters. Do you think humans are designed to eat meat?

Q3: In the second video, Dr. Joy mentioned the myth of carnism, which is: eating animals is normal, natural, and necessary. What are your thoughts about this? Can you think of any cases where eating animals is necessary?


Session 2:

Q4: Are you aware of the negative environmental impacts caused by the animal farming industry? Who (government, corporations, consumers) do you think plays the biggest part that leads to these circumstances?

Q5: How far are you willing to go, in terms of eating less meat, for the sake of the earth, animals, your health and your children? If you are not quite convinced by the ideas above, please share your thoughts.

Q6: Most people tend to think of a person or treat a person differently when knowing that they are a vegan. Do you think being a vegan/vegetarian will affect your social life (e.g. restaurant choices and size of social circle)?


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(Session II) 
8:30 ~ 9:10pm Discussion Session (40 mins) 
9:10 ~ 9:30pm Summarization / Concluding Remarks / Announcements (20 mins) ******************************************************************************************************************************************** 
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ellenlin
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註冊時間: 週三 4月 04, 2018 11:44 pm

Re: 8/21 (Tue) Is Eating Animals Necessary? (Host: Ellen)

文章Luis Ko » 週日 8月 19, 2018 6:17 pm

i personally find this kind of campaigns disgusting, if not very. in trying to convey their ideology, if carnism is some kind of ideology, why not what they believe in is not, those campaigners always try to make people feel guilty, making them think what they are doing is wrong, inhuman etc. the TED speaker also drew analogy, even it's just implication, between canrism and slavery/male dominant, which really pissed me off. i'm wondering if i asked her a question about why people had to have baby, her answer might also be "it's normal and necessary". doesn't she know the root cause of any violence on earth is human beings? if the world went vegetarian, it would be a better world? for the sake of doing good to the earth and all other living things, why not we just stop producing young, if i may say so. not to mention we just don't know if it will definitely be better after the world really go vegetarian, and we just don't know if it's definitely not cruel to those vegetables.. XD

by the way, i did read an article saying that animal farming is not really culpable in house gas emission as, at least not that serious, as those campaigners say. when people want to campaign something, they always try to pick the best part of what they advocate and make what they want to go against as worst as possible. of course i'm not an expert i don't know what is true but, when google "Global greenhouse gas emissions", i find there are a lot of graphic charts about it. there again, what to believe?

i'm not here saying it's right or wrong. especially when it comes to eating meat or not, it doesn't have to be about right or wrong indeed. some need to consume meat so that they would have enough strength to make their living. some are poor. they might need to have animal farms to let them buy cheaper meat. for those choose to be vegans they have their reasons too. no need to convince each other, especially make others guilty or what, to change. at the end of the day, to eat or not to eat, that's really personal choice. what i wanna say is, people are easily influenced, buying into ideas easily in internet era, you really should think for yourself lo~ :mrgreen:
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
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Re: 8/21 (Tue) Is Eating Animals Necessary? (Host: Ellen)

文章Janice Wang » 週日 8月 19, 2018 10:32 pm

Ellen, congrats on your YoYo debut! Based on my experience, sugarcoating with some comforting cliches might not be able to ease up the overwhelming feeling you are having as a debutant, so hoping this write-up can serve as my ultimate support for your great milestone at YoYo.

There are two basic sources of food, plants and animals, to sustain different digestive-system creatures. Human is luckily built as an omnivore to turn both basic food sources into nutrients to benefit and strengthen our physiques. In other words, the law of nature to maintain the right balance is to eat a well balanced diet in moderate amounts.

Given the fact that no one is born to be a vegan as the very first food for a new born to consume is a mother’s breast milk, a natural source commonly defined as akin to dairy products, an off-limits to vegans. Taken to its conclusion that one ends up with whomever one wants to be in terms of choosing one's dietary preferences is one’s basic right which should be equally respected. However, looking into our daily life, people never or rarely pose a question to figure out the reason of consuming meat to a meat-eater, but relatively curious get to the cause of the matter of being a no meat-eater, either a vegan or vegetarian. Does the lopsided approach also reflect the existing problem already - our gravely unbalanced and damaged ecosystem?

People may choose their eating preferences based on various reasons, from the concern of health, ethics, and religion..etc. The dietary choices should not be linked with morality judgement of whether it’s right or wrong; however, a conscious perspective is the way we look at things and make a reasoning consumption of food choices to protect the only earth we live on.
Janice Wang
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註冊時間: 週六 3月 25, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: 8/21 (Tue) Is Eating Animals Necessary? (Host: Ellen)

文章Rock » 週一 8月 20, 2018 6:50 pm

What? Debut? Is it Ellen's first hosting after she joined us for such a long time? What a waste! She is so talented and many people like her a lot. We should have more meetings hosted by Ellen.

I like this topic very much, same as Janice and Luis do. (I am pretty sure that Luis likes the topic but "dislikes" the TED talker's idea, or he wouldn't have written so much. :lol: ) It's for everybody and everybody has his/ her own belief. After all, we have to eat for 3 times a day, right?

Confession first, I do feel guilty when I think about this meat-eating thing. I know I won't be able to kill and eat a cute animal if I have a personal connection to it. It's said that farmers don't name their animals and don't play with them, because they know that these animals will be on the plate one day. And they don't want to say, "Bertha tastes not bad." :shock: It's like eating your friend, isn't it?

Many meat-eaters also think alike, including Confucius (what a cliche!). We love animals, but we eat animals, so we keep a distance from slaughterhouses and don't think about it. (Ostrich's head in the sand?) This kind of psychological defense is weak. When it's challenged, we either laugh it off or back ourselves up with another theory like nutrition or personal choices. But, deep in our hearts, we know there is something wrong.

The problem is not solved. I'd like to hear more about it from you guys.

One thing I do agree with Luis. Some vegetarians' preaches are condescending and annoying. We meat-eaters are not as ignorant as they think. Besides, they also, unintentionally, kill a lot of tiny lives. :lol:
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
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Re: 8/21 (Tue) Is Eating Animals Necessary? (Host: Ellen)

文章Rock » 週一 8月 20, 2018 7:06 pm

Q3.

I ask a monkey. It says that meat-eating is natural because monkeys belong to the nature and they eat meat. It also says that it's not 100% necessary because they can live on bananas, too.
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
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Rock
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文章: 1865
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Re: 8/21 (Tue) Is Eating Animals Necessary? (Host: Ellen)

文章ellenlin » 週一 8月 20, 2018 10:08 pm

Thank you Luis, Janice and Rock for your thoughtful feedbacks :D
I hope that my topic & questions did not sound too judgmental. I don't intent to persuade people to go vegan or cause any uncomfortable feelings. I chose it simply because I think it is very interesting, controversial and debatable.

However, I started to think that this topic might stop many people for coming to the meeting though :lol:
ellenlin
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Re: 8/21 (Tue) Is Eating Animals Necessary? (Host: Ellen)

文章Iris Wu » 週一 8月 20, 2018 11:36 pm

Luis is very passionate on this issue! :)
My understanding is that Luis is against any kind of campaigns presenting themselves as someone with higher moral standards and accusing the other side of moral culpability. Maybe just like calling people racists is definitely not one of the ways to reduce racial bias, overly emphasizing that eating animals is a social justice issue may have actually backfired.

But I do think it is necessary to promote awareness of the reality of animal farms and the whole process of meat industry and to make the environmental impact data obtainable through a trustworthy agency or academic organizations. It is only fair for people to make sensible decision based on these transparent and reliable facts. Think about this, the gun control advocates in US, the journey of these individuals in fighting with the powerful NRA, the meat industry and big animal farming corporations have similar resources to block any negative information to consumers.

I don’t make any judgment on meat eating or veganism. I agree that's personal choice, but I am not against the fair promotion of truth, especially the truth for the overall welfare of the earth and all living organisms on this planet.
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Re: 8/21 (Tue) Is Eating Animals Necessary? (Host: Ellen)

文章Gloria Lo » 週二 8月 21, 2018 11:48 pm

Attendees(23)

Ellen(Host), Norman, Bernie,Carrie, Felicidad, Janice, John, Athur, Oceana, Luis, David, Anne, Blithe, Gloria, Ramesh, Ryan Shiu, Iris, Steve, Tom, Liwen, Rock, Chris, Michelle



:lol: 8) :P
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Re: 8/21 (Tue) Is Eating Animals Necessary? (Host: Ellen)

文章Luis Ko » 週三 8月 22, 2018 3:38 am

"The Union of Concerned Scientists has disputed the film's assertion that the majority of greenhouse gases driving climate change are produced by animal agriculture rather than fossil fuel emissions[1], which runs counter to scientific consensus.[2]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowspiracy


"Natural gas consists mostly of methane, a potent ingredient in global warming. It is released into the environment during the mining of coal, and in drilling for oil and gas. Agriculture is also a huge contributor, with global livestock accounting for about 14.5 percent of greenhouse gas emissions – 44 percent of which is in the form of methane.

Methane is a stronger gas than carbon dioxide, yet unlike carbon dioxide its lifespan in the atmosphere is much more brief. Whereas CO2 lingers in the atmosphere and moves throughout the ecosystem, methane dissipates after approximately 12 years.

Dr. Raymond T. Pierrehumbert, a climate scientist at the University of Chicago, puts it best: “[M]ethane is like a hangover that you can get over if you stop drinking. CO2 is more like lead poisoning — it sticks around, you don’t get rid of it, and it causes irreversible harm.”"
http://www.planetexperts.com/greenhouse-gas-worse-methane-carbon-dioxide/


"Focusing on carbon emissions is only half the battle – or 74 percent of total emissions to be exact – but, focusing on the percentage of total emissions is extremely misleading because it ignores global warming potential altogether.

We’ve seen that methane, which accounts for only 14 percent of emissions worldwide, traps up to 100 times more heat than carbon dioxide over a 5-year period. This means that even though carbon dioxide molecules outnumber methane 5 to 1, this comparatively smaller amount of methane is still 19 times greater a problem for climate change over a 5 year period, and 4 times greater over a 100 year period.

To put it another way, any methane molecule released today is 100 times more heat-trapping than a molecule of carbon dioxide, or potentially even higher according to NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

With the UN establishing various tipping points for irreversible climate change damage on the horizon, it’s time that methane enters mainstream consideration. And better yet, the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) estimates that livestock production is responsible for 14.5 percent of global greenhouse gas emissions, while other organizations like the Worldwatch Institute have estimated it could be as much as 51 percent – it’s time that we look beyond our gas tanks and on to our plates."
http://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsan ... -showdown/


Global Manmade Greenhouse Gas Emissions by Sector, 2013
agriculture 11%, energy 72%
Global Manmade Greenhouse Gas Emissions by Gas, 2015
methane 16%, carbon dioxide 76% (All figures here are expressed in CO2-equivalents.)
https://www.c2es.org/content/international-emissions/


Distribution of emissions of greenhouse gases by industry sector worldwide as of 2014
agriculture 12%
https://www.statista.com/statistics/270 ... worldwide/



there is a lot of information on the internet as the above to name a few. i'm no expert, but even experts have different opinions about it. there's news saying something like 牛屁害地球 pointing the finger at animal farming as the main cause for global warming. i believe it's supported by some scientists but, there are also some other scientists, not me, holding different opinion so, it means the fact is still in dispute, if i may say so. moreover, as those numbers show, agriculture accounts for approximate 10% to 20% emissions rather than 51% as says in other organizations. so what to believe? that's why i think it's really very interesting. but then, the emission by gas says "All figures here are expressed in CO2-equivalents". what does it mean? guess if i really want to understand all these, i definitely need an expert or two to explain them to me, but guess i will never be able to understand it, no matter what haa~ :lol:
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
Luis Ko
YOYO member
 
文章: 801
註冊時間: 週三 6月 06, 2007 10:18 pm

Re: 8/21 (Tue) Is Eating Animals Necessary? (Host: Ellen)

文章Rock » 週三 8月 22, 2018 10:54 pm

Hey, don't read that kind of stuff too much. You will strain your brain. It's dangerous. :lol:
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
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Re: 8/21 (Tue) Is Eating Animals Necessary? (Host: Ellen)

文章Luis Ko » 週四 8月 23, 2018 9:37 am

right, just sacrificed myself to prevent people from being astray in those numbers.. XD
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
Luis Ko
YOYO member
 
文章: 801
註冊時間: 週三 6月 06, 2007 10:18 pm


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