5/4(Sat.) everyday people v.s. elites (Host: Luis)

5/4(Sat.) everyday people v.s. elites (Host: Luis)

文章Luis Ko » 週三 5月 01, 2019 7:58 pm

it's about British exit, but it's not all about it. there was a TV movie about the 2016 referendum broadcast earlier this year. it reveals “how” the vote was won by the Leave side. it occurs to me the result of Trump's election, the referendums we had last year, so-called fake news and 韓流, etc. all seem to have similar question mark put on them. all the questions sound to me like democracy is a fight between stupidity and smartness. if that's the case, i think it very interesting that we let everyday people to decide our future, referendum and general election are quite alike to me. welcome to the meeting if you are bored, or interested in this topic.

please note that we have "animal farm" in the second session. there seems to be no relevance to Brexit, but there's a lot more to it than meets the eye i would say. actually i didn't really read it. only the sentence "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." makes me think a lot, after i watched the city council clip posted by Tashi weeks ago. hope it will also be a thought provoking experience to you guys as well. anyway, please be prepared lo~ last but not the least, you guys questions are always as good as mine. :mrgreen:



session one



https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/06/uncivil-war-brexit-deceit-james-graham-dominic-cummings


questions:

1. what's your take on the revealing story? what has it taught you, if any?

2. why do you think the future direction of a nation, or a particular policy, should/should not be decided by ordinary people? what's the difference between a referendum and a general election?

3. i "happened to" read the sentence on the internet, "Patriotism is a moral mistake because it requires (and tends to create) enemies". what do you think about it?



session two



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm

(Animal Farm)Plot summary
The poorly-run Manor Farm near Willingdon, England is ripened for rebellion from its animal populace by neglect at the hands of the irresponsible and alcoholic farmer Mr. Jones. One night, the exalted boar Old Major organizes a meeting, at which he calls for the overthrow of humans and teaches the animals a revolutionary song called "Beasts of England". When Old Major dies, two young pigs, Snowball and Napoleon, assume command and stage a revolt, driving Mr. Jones off the farm and renaming the property "Animal Farm". They adopt the Seven Commandments of Animalism, the most important of which is, "All animals are equal". The decree is painted in large letters on one side of the barn. Snowball teaches the animals to read and write, while Napoleon educates young puppies on the principles of Animalism. Food is plentiful, and the farm runs smoothly. The pigs elevate themselves to positions of leadership and set aside special food items, ostensibly for their personal health. Following an unsuccessful attempt by Mr. Jones and his associates to retake the farm (later dubbed the "Battle of the Cowshed"), Snowball announces his plans to modernize the farm by building a windmill. Napoleon has his dogs chase Snowball away and he declares himself leader.

Napoleon enacts changes to the governance structure of the farm, replacing meetings with a committee of pigs who will run the farm. Through a young pig named Squealer, Napoleon claims credit for the windmill idea. The animals work harder with the promise of easier lives with the windmill. When the animals find the windmill collapsed after a violent storm, Napoleon and Squealer convince the animals that Snowball is trying to sabotage their project, and begin to purge the farm of animals Napoleon accuses of consorting with his old rival. When some animals recall the Battle of the Cowshed, Napoleon (who was nowhere to be found during the battle) frequently smears Snowball as a collaborator of Mr. Jones, while falsely representing himself as the hero of the battle. "Beasts of England" is replaced with an anthem glorifying Napoleon, who appears to be adopting the lifestyle of a man. The animals remain convinced that they are better off than they were under Mr. Jones.

Mr. Frederick, a neighbouring farmer, attacks the farm, using blasting powder to blow up the restored windmill. Although the animals win the battle, they do so at great cost, as many, including Boxer the workhorse, are wounded. Boxer eventually collapses while working on the windmill. Although Boxer is clearly taken away in a knacker's van, Squealer quickly assures the animals that the van had been purchased from the knacker by an animal hospital, and that the previous owner's signboard had not been repainted. Squealer subsequently reports Boxer's death and martyrizes him with a festival the following day. However, the truth is that Napoleon had engineered the sale of Boxer to the knacker, allowing Napoleon and his inner circle to acquire money to buy whisky for themselves.

Years pass, the windmill is rebuilt, and another windmill is constructed, which makes the farm a good amount of income. However, the ideals which Snowball discussed, including stalls with electric lighting, heating, and running water, are forgotten, with Napoleon advocating that the happiest animals live simple lives. In addition to Boxer, many of the animals who participated in the rebellion are dead or old. Mr. Jones, having moved away after giving up on reclaiming his farm, has also died. The pigs start to resemble humans, as they walk upright, carry whips, drink alcohol and wear clothes. The Seven Commandments are abridged to just two phrases: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." and "Four legs good, two legs better." Napoleon holds a dinner party for the pigs and local farmers, with whom he celebrates a new alliance. He abolishes the practice of the revolutionary traditions and restores the name "The Manor Farm". When the animals outside look at the pigs and men, they can no longer distinguish between the two.


here are the Seven Commandments of Animalism:

1. Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
3. No animal shall wear clothes.
4. No animal shall sleep in a bed.
5. No animal shall drink alcohol.
6. No animal shall kill any other animal.
7. All animals are equal.

https://www.aresearchguide.com/animal-farm-commandments.html


questions:

1. what's your take on the video?

2. what's the moral of the book? what has it taught you, if any, even only reading the plot? can "animal farm" be compared to any modern day situation? how relevant is it today?

3. i "happened to" read the question on the internet, "Who divides us? Is it the politicians?". what is your answer?



注意事項:
現場不另提供紙本文章及討論題目,文章是否需要列印請自行斟酌,但與會者請先閱讀過所有文章,並歡迎為這兩主題各準備自己的問題參與討論,於小組討論時與組員討論, 謝謝合作!


********************************************************************************************************************************************
Agenda:
3:45 ~ 4:00pm Greetings & Free Talk / Ordering Beverage or Meal / Getting Newcomer’s Information
4:00 ~ 4:10pm Opening Remarks / Newcomer’s Self-introduction / Grouping
(Session I)
4:10 ~ 4:50pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
4:50 ~ 5:10pm Summarization (20 mins)
5:10 ~ 5:15pm Regrouping / Instruction Giving / Taking a 10 Minutes Break (Intermission)
(Session II)
5:15 ~ 5:55pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
6:00 ~ 6:20pm Summarization (20 mins)
6:20 ~ 6:30pm Concluding Remarks / Announcements ********************************************************************************************************************************************
聚會日期:列於該貼文主題內
聚會時間:請準時 4:00 pm 到 ~ 約 6:30 pm 左右結束
星期六聚會地點:丹堤濟南店
地址、電話:台北市濟南路三段25號 地圖 (02) 2740-2350
捷運站:板南線 忠孝新生站 3 號出口
走法:出忠孝新生站 3 號出口後,沿著巷子(忠孝東路三段10巷)走約 2 分鐘,到了濟南路口,左轉走約 2 分鐘即可看到。
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注意事項:
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2. 與會者請先閱讀過文章,並仔細想過所有的問題,謝謝合作!


給新朋友的話:
1. 請事先準備2~3分鐘的英語自我介紹;會議結束前可能會請你發表1~2分鐘的感想。
2. 請事先閱讀文章以及主持人所提的討論問題,並事先寫下自己所欲發表意見的英文。
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i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
Luis Ko
YOYO member
 
文章: 840
註冊時間: 週三 6月 06, 2007 10:18 pm

Re: 5/4(Sat.) everyday people v.s. elites (Host: Luis)

文章Kooper » 週六 5月 04, 2019 10:24 am

If you have the same question as I regarding how much of the movie is based on facts, check this out.

What’s Fact and What’s Fiction in HBO’s Brexit
Did one man really swing the fate of the European Union? We fact-check the new movie.

https://slate.com/culture/2019/01/brexit-movie-accuracy-fact-fiction-hbo-benedict-cumberbatch.html
Kooper
YOYO member
 
文章: 2486
註冊時間: 週三 4月 11, 2007 11:40 pm

Re: 5/4(Sat.) everyday people v.s. elites (Host: Luis)

文章Kooper » 週六 5月 04, 2019 11:25 am

In one of previous YOYO meetings we watched a TED talk delivered by Zeynep Tufekci, in which the speaker raised serious concerns over the powerful artificial intelligence that high-tech companies are building. The opaque nature of machine learning makes it almost impossible for humans to get their heads around. Another worry is the potential of exploiting these powerful new technologies by the authorities to manipulate the ordinary people.

The movie Brexit, whose plot seems to be by large based on facts, makes a strong case for Tufekci’s warning. To me, it is no longer an empty threat that AI could control the world, or at least being misused by the powerful to do so.
Kooper
YOYO member
 
文章: 2486
註冊時間: 週三 4月 11, 2007 11:40 pm

Re: 5/4(Sat.) everyday people v.s. elites (Host: Luis)

文章Iris Wu » 週六 5月 04, 2019 1:52 pm

I like the question about "Patriotism".
I had been thinking what it would take for people to contemplate living in a global village and being a citizen of the global village. More and more I think it is all but impossible!

I live in a big community. After five years fighting and struggling, we finally succeeded in our version of Brexit, two buildings became "independent" and separated from the original big community. But right after we celebrated our "independence", we immediately had our internal split. Each side has their leaders and followers. People are patriotic to their leaders and the hostility grows naturally. I am pretty pessimistic about human nature. I think Animal Farm is a good allegory!
Iris Wu
YOYO member
 
文章: 628
註冊時間: 週二 5月 20, 2014 4:33 pm

Re: 5/4(Sat.) everyday people v.s. elites (Host: Luis)

文章Luis Ko » 週日 5月 05, 2019 12:59 am

Kooper 寫:In one of previous YOYO meetings we watched a TED talk delivered by Zeynep Tufekci, in which the speaker raised serious concerns over the powerful artificial intelligence that high-tech companies are building. The opaque nature of machine learning makes it almost impossible for humans to get their heads around. Another worry is the potential to exploit these powerful new technologies by the authorities to manipulate the ordinary people.

The movie Brexit, whose plot seems to be by large based on facts, makes a strong case for Tufekci’s warning. To me, it is no longer an empty threat that AI could control the world, or at least being misused by the powerful to do so.


agree! the manipulation of ordinary people by authorities is also kind of relevant to the question, "who divides us?". it's us who divide ourselves in the first place. it's because of our animal nature, which makes us tend to have binary thinking such as like or dislike, according to Ken. based on our preference, those who have power have the ground to manipulate us and divide us even further by using those technologies, and finally get what they want. Leon is right about it. politics is not about what politicians can do nowadays. it's about who has better "influence" ability. therefore, what we have to worry about is not one specific party would use it to manipulate people, instead we have to take stock of our own life, and not to become a strong adherent of any specific ones.

we divide ourselves because, more often than not, we buy into the idea that those who disagree with us are stupid, ignorant or what. guess we have to learn to respect differences between people. that's probably one of the solutions to this issue. anyway, you guys' guess is as good as mine lo~ :mrgreen:
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
Luis Ko
YOYO member
 
文章: 840
註冊時間: 週三 6月 06, 2007 10:18 pm

Re: 5/4(Sat.) everyday people v.s. elites (Host: Luis)

文章Luis Ko » 週日 5月 05, 2019 1:12 am

Iris Wu 寫:I like the question about "Patriotism".
I had been thinking what it would take for people to contemplate living in a global village and being a citizen of the global village. More and more I think it is all but impossible!

I live in a big community. After five years fighting and struggling, we finally succeeded in our version of Brexit, two buildings became "independent" and separated from the original big community. But right after we celebrated our "independence", we immediately had our internal split. Each side has their leaders and followers. People are patriotic to their leaders and the hostility grows naturally. I am pretty pessimistic about human nature. I think Animal Farm is a good allegory!


same here! that's exactly what i think about patriotism and animal farm. but then again, hope we will learn a lesson or two from history lo~ :mrgreen:
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
Luis Ko
YOYO member
 
文章: 840
註冊時間: 週三 6月 06, 2007 10:18 pm

Re: 5/4(Sat.) everyday people v.s. elites (Host: Luis)

文章Luis Ko » 週日 5月 05, 2019 1:20 am

attendees:
Sabrina, Tim, Sunny, Julian, Iris, Michael, Laura(left early), Steve, Ken, Leon, Tom, Gloria, and Luis(Host)

thank you guys for coming lo~ :D
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
Luis Ko
YOYO member
 
文章: 840
註冊時間: 週三 6月 06, 2007 10:18 pm

Re: 5/4(Sat.) everyday people v.s. elites (Host: Luis)

文章Michael-liu » 週日 5月 05, 2019 4:20 am

Iris Wu 寫:I live in a big community. After five years fighting and struggling, we finally succeeded in our version of Brexit, two buildings became "independent" and separated from the original big community. But right after we celebrated our "independence", we immediately had our internal split. Each side has their leaders and followers. People are patriotic to their leaders and the hostility grows naturally. I am pretty pessimistic about human nature. I think Animal Farm is a good allegory!


After knowing the independence story of your building, it really makes me believe human nature makes us to create enemy and human nature also wants freedom from those who bother us.

Tibet and 新疆 want independence from China.
North Ireland and Scotland want independence from the UK
加特隆尼亞 wants independence from Spain
Quebec wants independence from Canada
Even, Texas wants independence from the US

Too many examples......
Michael-liu
YOYO member
 
文章: 538
註冊時間: 週五 4月 24, 2009 6:09 pm


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