12/03 (Tue.) Taiwan's Generational Divide (Host: Dan)

12/03 (Tue.) Taiwan's Generational Divide (Host: Dan)

文章Dan » 週日 12月 01, 2019 12:42 am

Taiwan’s Generational Divide

Session I:

As we see with the presidential election campaign, there appears to be a growing generational divide, or generation gap, in Taiwan. Younger people generally support Tsai Ing-wen and the DPP, while Han Kuo-yu of the KMT is drawing die-hard support from many in the older generations. That support for Mr. Han appears to be solid despite the growing number of scandals surrounding his candidacy and his precipitous drop in the polls. Let’s talk about this particular trend from the perspective of the forthcoming election and how it is playing out in Taiwan.

Questions:

1. Why do you think Mr. Han is getting his main support from older generations?

a. He supports more traditional values than Ms. Tsai.

b. He promises his supporters a return to the “good ol’ days” 40 or 50 years ago (whether they were really good is another matter).

c. His supporters only watch or read Han-backing media, such as TV network CtiTV.

d. He engages in demagoguery, playing on his supporters fears of changes in Taiwanese society.

e. All of the above.


2. What do you think of Mr. Han’s efforts to woo younger voters, including offering to pay for students to study abroad (though not making clear how he would fund it) and, more recently, saying he supports same-sex marriage?

3. I like to call Mr. Han “Taiwan’s Trump” because their styles and dynamics of their support are similar. Like Mr. Han, Mr. Trump has backing from certain media (Fox News, in particular) and also draws much of his support from older (especially white) people. (Trump also plays on fears of changing demographics in the U.S.) Do you agree that Mr. Han’s support is fueled by similar dynamics as that of Mr. Trump based on what you know about the U.S. president?

4. Do you think support for Mr. Han by older generations of Taiwanese has anything to do with the fact that these supporters grew up during the martial law period and received pro-China and pro-KMT indoctrination in schools and elsewhere?


Session II:

Let’s explore the generation-gap theme outside of election politics. (And if you disagree with the theme and believe there is no significant generation gap, that’s okay, too.)

Questions:

1. What are some of the other areas in which younger and older generations differ most sharply in Taiwan, such as same-sex marriage, religion, child-rearing (or the need for children to begin with)?

2. How much does new technology and new ways to communicate, such as social media and texting, deepen the generation gap?

3. Why do you think so many people in the older generations in Taiwan oppose same-sex marriage and how much does religion have to do with it?

4. Are older people in Taiwan more superstitious?

5. Many in Taiwan’s older generations have a lot of brothers and sisters, but the birthrate has plummeted. Is this the result, in part, of different attitudes about the desirability of children by young people? Bonus question: Why don’t parents and grandparents pressure young people more to have children?

No reading list necessary this time.


********************************************************************************************************************************************
Agenda:
6:45 ~ 7:00pm Greetings & Free Talk / Ordering Beverage or Meal / Getting Newcomer’s Information
7:00 ~ 7:10pm Opening Remarks / Newcomer’s Self-introduction / Grouping
(Session I)
7:10 ~ 7:50pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
7:50 ~ 8:10pm Summarization (20 mins)
8:10 ~ 8:25pm Regrouping / Instruction Giving / Taking a 10 Minutes Break (Intermission)
(Session II)
8:25 ~ 9:05pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
9:05 ~ 9:25pm Summarization (20 mins)
9:25 ~ 9:30pm Concluding Remarks / Announcements ********************************************************************************************************************************************
聚會日期:列於該貼文主題內
聚會時間:當天請準時於 6:45 pm 到達 ~ 約 9:30 pm 左右結束
星期二聚會地點:丹堤濟南店
地址、電話:台北市濟南路三段25號 地圖 (02) 2740-2350
捷運站:板南線 忠孝新生站 3 號出口
走法:出忠孝新生站 3 號出口後,沿著巷子(忠孝東路三段10巷)走約 2 分鐘,到了濟南路口,左轉走約 2 分鐘即可看到。
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Dan
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Re: 12/03 (Tue.) Taiwan's Generational Divide (Host: Dan)

文章Luis Ko » 週日 12月 01, 2019 8:44 pm

what does it mean "fears of changes in Taiwanese society"? i don't get why the fear of changing demographics in Taiwan would do Han, instead of Tsai, any favour? furthermore, when it comes to the support from certain media for Mr. Han, it's crystal clear that president Tsai has way more media to help her reelection at the same time. in my opinion, Taiwanese identity sort of political issues aside, guess one of the main reasons why Mr. Han gets more support from older people is because of their experience. for example, these people are more experienced in life knowing that they have been lied to by DPP for too many times, whereas younger people are just inexperienced, or say naive, they buy everything that DPP tell them.

the main reason for generation gap, or the main difference between people, is experience. people have different experience, and same generation has more shared experience. it's just that simple. 8)

by the way, what's democracy? i would say democracy is when you know the incumbent sucks, you must just kick them out of their position and let other people do the jobs through election. you have the right and the obligation to do so, even if you are not sure the next one will be better. :lol:
最後由 Luis Ko 於 週一 12月 02, 2019 10:00 am 編輯,總共編輯了 1 次。
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
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Re: 12/03 (Tue.) Taiwan's Generational Divide (Host: Dan)

文章Dan » 週日 12月 01, 2019 9:18 pm

I can tell that you are an example of a young guy who supports Han Kuo-yu, Luis. :)

I don't think Ms. Tsai has her "own" channel, does she, like what I hear they call the "Han Tian" channel?

In any case, I hope you bring those strong views to the meeting Tuesday!
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Re: 12/03 (Tue.) Taiwan's Generational Divide (Host: Dan)

文章Luis Ko » 週一 12月 02, 2019 10:59 am

Dan 寫:I can tell that you are an example of a young guy who supports Han Kuo-yu, Luis. :)

I don't think Ms. Tsai has her "own" channel, does she, like what I hear they call the "Han Tian" channel?





right, i will be more than happy to see Tsai's failure In the presidential election next year!! :lol:

as to why people think Tasi has no her own channel, one of the reasons i can think of is no one supporter would admit there's any specific channel unfairly doing the one they support lots of favours. it sounds unjust, doesn't it? the other reason is, instead of Tsai's channel, some channels have long been firm supporters of DPP. people have got used to it so that they won't say it's Tsai's CHannels. finally, when only one channel goes totally against most of the rest of the channels it would be an odd one out and dubbed "Han Tian", that's why, i guess. 8)
最後由 Luis Ko 於 週二 12月 03, 2019 1:18 pm 編輯,總共編輯了 1 次。
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
Luis Ko
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註冊時間: 週三 6月 06, 2007 10:18 pm

Re: 12/03 (Tue.) Taiwan's Generational Divide (Host: Dan)

文章Dan » 週一 12月 02, 2019 5:22 pm

I know there is "Blue" media and "Green" media in Taiwan, but maybe there is "Red" media, too? :wink:

In any case, I hope we can have a "colorful" discussion tomorrow. :)
Dan
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Re: 12/03 (Tue.) Taiwan's Generational Divide (Host: Dan)

文章Iris Wu » 週二 12月 03, 2019 11:28 am

Question 3:
I like to call Mr. Han “Taiwan’s Trump” because their styles and dynamics of their support are similar. Like Mr. Han, Mr. Trump has backing from certain media (Fox News, in particular) and also draws much of his support from older (especially white) people. (Trump also plays on fears of changing demographics in the U.S.) Do you agree that Mr. Han’s support is fueled by similar dynamics as that of Mr. Trump based on what you know about the U.S. president?

So, you think Mr. Han's supporters are "losers" like those of Trump Supporters? And you think President Tsai is like "No Drama Obama"?
Some will surely challenge these ideas tonight! 8)
Iris Wu
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Re: 12/03 (Tue.) Taiwan's Generational Divide (Host: Dan)

文章Luis Ko » 週二 12月 03, 2019 1:17 pm

i'm afraid it's too exciting for me to go.. :lol:
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
Luis Ko
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Re: 12/03 (Tue.) Taiwan's Generational Divide (Host: Dan)

文章Iris Wu » 週二 12月 03, 2019 2:30 pm

Luis Ko 寫:i'm afraid it's too exciting for me to go.. :lol:

Luis, you are NEEDED there! (to prove that Han's supporters are not just the elders)! :lol:
As you know, most YoYoers shy away from topics related to our own politics, but Dan loves to ignite the fuel!
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Re: 12/03 (Tue.) Taiwan's Generational Divide (Host: Dan)

文章Sherry Liao » 週二 12月 03, 2019 3:34 pm

Dan 寫:1. Why do you think Mr. Han is getting his main support from older generations?

a. He supports more traditional values than Ms. Tsai.

b. He promises his supporters a return to the “good ol’ days” 40 or 50 years ago (whether they were really good is another matter).

c. His supporters only watch or read Han-backing media, such as TV network CtiTV.

d. He engages in demagoguery, playing on his supporters fears of changes in Taiwanese society.

e. All of the above.


I don’t understand what “fears of changes in Taiwanese society” is about. For other options, my answer is none of the above.

My parents are die-hard supporters of KMT. It’s not that they like Han or believe anything he promises, it’s just that they would vote for whoever KMT nominates for president.

Luis Ko 寫:the main reason for generation gap, or the main difference between people, is experience. people have different experience, and same generation has more shared experience. it's just that simple. 8)


Agree. People tend to make decisions base on their past experiences. For my parents, they belong to a generation who had experienced war or heard of the horror of war in their childhood. They believe it’s DPP, not KMT, that would “provoke” war across Taiwan Strait. Once a war takes place, people lose everything, including freedom.
Sherry Liao
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Re: 12/03 (Tue.) Taiwan's Generational Divide (Host: Dan)

文章Dan » 週二 12月 03, 2019 6:11 pm

Sherry, by fears of changes in Taiwanese society, I meant Taiwan isn't the society older generations remember it to be when they were young (something we see with other societies, of course). Does Han make them believe that it could be like that again?

This is what Trump's slogan of "Make America Great Again," really means, we think. Make America the way you remember it. (But some people think the slogan really has a secret racist meaning of "Make America "White," Again. Unfortunately, I think that's true of some Trump supporters.

Iris, at a recent press conference for foreign journalists, I asked Han Kuo-yu whether he agrees with the comparison as "Taiwan's Trump." He smiled and said something in English. I'll tell you at the meeting. :wink:
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Re: 12/03 (Tue.) Taiwan's Generational Divide (Host: Dan)

文章Douglas » 週二 12月 03, 2019 6:22 pm

Maybe one way how many Taiwanese people miss the old days is the positive image of the former president Chiang Ching-Kuo among them, which symbolizes the times of fast economic growth and better income distribution? I wondered why so many politicians including Ko Wen Je take him as some kind of model or paradigm...although Chiang indeed had done some good job.
My view is that support for KMT and Han is another more complicated story...
最後由 Douglas 於 週三 12月 04, 2019 12:47 pm 編輯,總共編輯了 1 次。
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Re: 12/03 (Tue.) Taiwan's Generational Divide (Host: Dan)

文章Iris Wu » 週三 12月 04, 2019 9:52 am

Last night, we had some guests coming from Dan’s Meetup. In the meeting, one of the guests said he thinks a democratic country doesn’t need leadership or vision, as long as everyone has the freedom and works his/her best, and that’s all it needs. (Not exact words, but I think that’s what he meant.)

The guest is working at Academia Sinica, and it’s maybe true in academic environment what is needed is many individual contributors work their best in his/her own research and under a very free/open atmosphere. But is it going to work in a business entity, a corporation and a country? Can a company be run without a leadership, vision and direction? Can everyone just naturally know how to produce things together perfectly? Can a country run by itself without a steering committee and just by a bunch of hard-working people? That’s a pretty Utopian thinking, I would say.
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Re: 12/03 (Tue.) Taiwan's Generational Divide (Host: Dan)

文章Douglas » 週三 12月 04, 2019 12:45 pm

I think he over-interpreted the word leadership as "authoritarianism." Strictly speaking authoritarianism or dictatorship does not involve leadership, does it? XD
However what many in the older generation miss is just the authoritarian way of life. Maybe that's why the guest quickly reacted in that way.
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Re: 12/03 (Tue.) Taiwan's Generational Divide (Host: Dan)

文章Christine » 週三 12月 04, 2019 3:59 pm

Participants (20): Dan (host), David Jr., Sherry, Paola (newcomer), Christine, Steve, Shirley, Sherry(newcomer), Alice (newcomer), Tom, Julian, Douglas, Liwen, Lewis, Miller, Tim, Anre, Iris, Chi, James (newcomer)
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Re: 12/03 (Tue.) Taiwan's Generational Divide (Host: Dan)

文章Iris Wu » 週三 12月 04, 2019 7:10 pm

Douglas 寫:I think he over-interpreted the word leadership as "authoritarianism." Strictly speaking authoritarianism or dictatorship does not involve leadership, does it? XD
However what many in the older generation miss is just the authoritarian way of life. Maybe that's why the guest quickly reacted in that way.

Well said!
It's getting complicated. Is there anything called "authoritarian leadership"? If not, there is still "authoritarian vision", I guess. Though we know autocratic leaders offer little flexibility and creativity in decision-making, it can be very effective/efficient.
What is exactly the thing old generation miss? That’s a very good question. Is it the “authoritarian way of life” or “the efficiency and productivity coming with the authoritarianism”?

Every generation has its own core values. The younger generation value democratic freedom over anything else. I am sure the old generation appreciate the democracy, but they may disprove the byproducts of a democratic system: chaos, inefficiency and a divided society.
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