6/16 (Tue.)We love things free. But, are you sure it’s free? (Host: Steve)

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swing0313
President
文章: 10
註冊時間: 週一 8月 12, 2019 11:50 am

6/16 (Tue.)We love things free. But, are you sure it’s free? (Host: Steve)

文章 swing0313 »

Recently, Our government announced to issue the stimulus voucher to help boosting the economy after facing the shock of the Covid-19.



Does that really help? Let’s talk~
https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editor ... 2003734563

Session 1: How do you use it
1. Since the only way is to spend it, how will you use the stimulus voucher?

2. There’re several ways to obtain the voucher
which way will you choose, why?

3. Besides the voucher from government, we can also see some institution trying to issue their own voucher or adding their own program to combine with the stimulus voucher which has the extra refund or budget package.

4. According to the article, what’s the difference between the Ma’s vouchers & Su’s coupons?


Session 2: where are they from? Where are they going?

While doing this program, many governments took a lot of effort in it which are money, time, manpower...etc.
Is that really a good bargain?

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixi ... n-vouchers

1. Do you think stimulus voucher really works? According to the article, what are the pros and cons for this program?

2. Do you know any other ways for stimulating the economy or you saw our government has tried before?

3. Since this voucher are actually made from our tax and even spend more including printing and related administrative cost. Do you think you really get something for free?

Agenda:
6:45 ~ 7:00pm Greetings & Free Talk / Ordering Beverage or Meal / Getting Newcomer’s Information
7:00 ~ 7:10pm Opening Remarks / Newcomer’s Self-introduction / Grouping
(Session I)
7:00 ~ 7:40pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
7:40 ~ 7:55pm Summarization (15 mins)
7:55 ~ 8:0pm Regrouping / Instruction Giving / Taking a 5 Minutes Break (Intermission)
(Session II)
8:00 ~ 8:40pm Discussion Session (30 mins)
8:40 ~ 8:55pm Summarization and conclusion (15 mins)

********************************************************************************************************************************************
Meeting Date: As shown in the Subject Line
Meeting Time: 7:00pm – 9:00pm
Meeting Venue: 丹堤咖啡 Dante Coffee (Minimum Order $80)
Address: 台北市濟南路三段25號-捷運忠孝新生站3號出口步行3分鐘

Important Notes:
1. Participants are recommended to print out the questions for the discussion. Also, the supporting articles, if preferred not to access them via their own mobile phone.
2. Please read the articles and discussion questions provided by the host and write down your thoughts in English in advance.

For Newcomers:
1. Please prepare a two-to-three minute introduction of yourself in English. You may also be asked to give brief feedback at the conclusion of the meeting.
2. The entire meeting is conducted in English. All participants should at least have moderate English conversation skills and be able to articulate your ideas for each discussion question.
3. Newcomers are welcome to attend the meeting and join the discussion up to three times. Formal membership with a lifetime membership fee NT$1000 is required afterward.
Janice Wang
YOYO member
文章: 75
註冊時間: 週六 3月 25, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: 6/16 (Tue.)We love things free. But, are you sure it’s free? (Host: Steve)

文章 Janice Wang »

Nothing is more practical and stimulating than free money to keep me cheerful nowadays! Despite needing to first take $1000 out of my pocket to get the dangling carrot of $2000 in front of me, it’s still a worthy spent, plus the incumbent government imparts a valuable lesson - there is no such thing as a free lunch! Moreover, the combined value of $3000 may incentivize purchases worth four times their value to revitalize the imperiled economy. I gotta seize the opportunity to turn myself into a contributor of altruism to my country! But, How?

The editorial of the Taipei Times was at my fingertips. The title was “Cash handouts not the answer”. After reading the article word by word diligently, I find it barely covers half of the title “not the answer” as the argument seems to mainly focus on bashing how poorly KMT was, is, and will be doing. (Hasn’t it already been proven in multiple elections recently?!). Perhaps my English has been getting too rusty to fully understand the message from the article, so I scrambled to google “蘇貞昌馬英九消費券異同"and "蘇貞昌消費券極大化". None of the news outlets seem to be able to get an average joe on board!

If time is money, I have already squandered quite some over it, and they were all down the drain as I still don’t get how Su’s coupons can maximize the economy in an easier way as claimed. Suddenly one thought struck me, why on earth would I miss out on picking Steve’s brain, whose broad-based knowledge and accomplishments serve as the best advertisement to his own topic and is genuinely free!!
最後由 Janice Wang 於 週一 6月 15, 2020 9:51 pm 編輯,總共編輯了 2 次。
Michael-liu
YOYO member
文章: 623
註冊時間: 週五 4月 24, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: 6/16 (Tue.)We love things free. But, are you sure it’s free? (Host: Steve)

文章 Michael-liu »

Hi, Janice, I learned an idiom from your comment.

"have something at your/their etc fingertips"

to have knowledge or information ready and available to use very easily

Ex. We have all the facts and figures at our fingertips.

A dangling carrot is also good to learn.
steve cheng
YOYO member
文章: 71
註冊時間: 週一 1月 10, 2011 7:20 pm

Re: 6/16 (Tue.)We love things free. But, are you sure it’s free? (Host: Steve)

文章 steve cheng »

Hi Janice:

I deeply appreciate your comments!

Reading your article is always enjoyable,

but somehow I feel pressured When it comes

to the end this time!?

Anyway ,it’s my honor to have your visiting!

Wish you come to our meetings often
Iris Wu
YOYO member
文章: 735
註冊時間: 週二 5月 20, 2014 4:33 pm

Re: 6/16 (Tue.)We love things free. But, are you sure it’s free? (Host: Steve)

文章 Iris Wu »

All the governments can always brag their economic relief policies, but when coming to their fairness and effectiveness performance review, we can probably say, “It’s all about data and technology, stupid”!

Without good data analysis, it’s hard to deliver the right amount to the needed exactly. Without the technology to implement a good relief program, we are likely to see the chaotic procedures and overburdened low-level civil servants.

After the good management of the pandemic in Taiwan, we don’t mean to take the wind out of their sails, but it will be a bigger challenge to reopen and accelerate the economy.

The effectiveness of cash/voucher or coupon systems can be debated in the meeting.
Kooper
YOYO member
文章: 2605
註冊時間: 週三 4月 11, 2007 11:40 pm

Re: 6/16 (Tue.)We love things free. But, are you sure it’s free? (Host: Steve)

文章 Kooper »

Janice Wang 寫:
週一 6月 15, 2020 4:48 pm
Nothing is more practical and stimulating than free money to keep me cheerful nowadays! Despite needing to first take $1000 out of my pocket to get the dangling carrot of $2000 in front of me, it’s still a worthy spent, plus the incumbent government imparts a valuable lesson - there is no such thing as a free lunch! Moreover, the combined value of $3000 may incentivize purchases worth four times their value to revitalize the imperiled economy. I gotta seize the opportunity to turn myself into a contributor of altruism to my country! But, How? ...
Hi Janice,
Your writing always stands out from the rest. Now you are getting even better. I had better kick into high gear so as not to fall behind too much.
Luis Ko
YOYO member
文章: 922
註冊時間: 週三 6月 06, 2007 10:18 pm

Re: 6/16 (Tue.)We love things free. But, are you sure it’s free? (Host: Steve)

文章 Luis Ko »

i just want to say this editorial of taipei times is total bullshit.

just like Janice mentioned, it should have explained why cash handouts is not the answer for post-covid19 economy since the title is "Cash handouts not the answer'. instead, it sort of chose to attack straw man and threw in some red herrings in favour of DPP.

first, it downplays the effect of KMT's policy of issuing “consumer vouchers” in 2009, but fail to even mention a word that it was DPP who called for cash handouts and argued that there was no better way, and now it's the same DPP who say no to cash handouts. then, it brags the electronic coupons which only cost the government NT$10 billion would bring stores NT$100 billion in profits, again, without explaining how. and when a great majority of people hold the same opinion with KMT criticizing DPP's coupon policy now and asking for cash handouts, the editorial accuses KMT of being a master in creating conflict and pitting personal interests against the public interest. so what is the public interest here??

at the end of the day, the editorial neither explains the cash thing nor shows it's an independent news organisation freeing from political bias. on the contrary, it epitomizes the problem of media bias in Taiwan, and how serious the situation is i would say. :evil:
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
Michael-liu
YOYO member
文章: 623
註冊時間: 週五 4月 24, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: 6/16 (Tue.)We love things free. But, are you sure it’s free? (Host: Steve)

文章 Michael-liu »

Iris, I learned an idiom from your comment.

take the wind out of somebody’s sails

informal
to make someone lose their confidence, especially by saying or doing something unexpected
(我想不出中文該怎麼翻)

Luis, I learned even more from your comment

1.straw man

American English
a weak opponent or imaginary argument that can easily be defeated

2. red herring

a fact or idea that is not important but is introduced to take your attention away from the points that are important → distraction
(Maybe we can translate it into "轉移焦點")

3. To epitomize

to be a very typical example of something

(具體呈現了.........) or (.......典型的例子)

You guys are getting better and better. I now have to look up a dictionary to understand you guy's comments.

By the way, why do I have to translate them into Chinese? The reason is if I can't translate into Chinese, I can't remember them. I wonder if you guys have the same frustration as me.
steve cheng
YOYO member
文章: 71
註冊時間: 週一 1月 10, 2011 7:20 pm

Re: 6/16 (Tue.)We love things free. But, are you sure it’s free? (Host: Steve)

文章 steve cheng »

Attendees:

Iris ,Janice ,Catherine ,Shirley ,

Amy ,Rosie ,Sabrina ,Holly ,

Chris , Miller ,Winston ,Luis ,

Tomas ,Julian ,Jason .

Host: Steve .

Thanks for all your participation !
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