7/25(Sat.) The courage to be disliked (Host:Stephen)

stephen185
YOYO member
文章: 183
註冊時間: 週三 5月 30, 2007 8:23 pm

7/25(Sat.) The courage to be disliked (Host:Stephen)

文章 stephen185 »

I found a book called ‘The courage to be disliked’ in a cardboard box sitting in the corner of my room when I was decluttering my home on a Sunday afternoon a few weeks ago. As far as I can recall, it is a gift from my son, who apparently possesses the courage to be disliked and is now living in a city several hundred miles away from my house. The wrinkled book cover suggests that I probably have read this book at least once. But I just couldn’t remember anything about the content of the book. I decided to read it again in that afternoon. And I found the book might be worth discussing in a Yoyo meeting. The following are book reviews selected from the web.

Note: Kooper told me Rosie held a meeting with similar topic in 2015. You can find an excerpt of the book in Chinese through the link below,
(http://www.yoyo.club.tw/viewtopic.php?f ... ith#p29146)
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* The courage to be disliked (book review) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dlKp6aLN9I)
* Critical viewpoints of the book (https://medium.com/@swacklin/ad4f6e2fccf1) (in Chinese)
* {Book Review} The Courage to be Disliked by Kishimi and Koga
(http://talesofakitchen.com/2020/01/27/b ... -disliked/)

In an easy, conversational style between a philosopher and a young man, the book sheds light on how we can peel off a few layers, understand what we want and our direction in life, how to rid of past traumas and stop being afraid to be who we want to be (regardless of what others want us to be), so we can be happier. It is based on the philosophy of Alfred Adler and it includes the concept of contributing to the community as a key element towards achieving happiness. Below are my favorite takeaways.

On past, future, change and meaning:
• We are not determined by past experiences (or traumas); no experience is in itself a cause of our success or failure. We are determined by the meaning we give our experiences. Yes, these experiences can influence our personality and the influence can be strong, but nothing is determined by those influences.
• We are not controlled by the past nor by our emotions.
• The question isn’t “what happened “, but “how was it resolved”.
• What happened in our lives until this point should have no bearing on how we live from now on. We are living in the here and now and we can determine our own life.
• People are not driven by past causes, but they move towards goals that they set themselves.
• We are not born with a specific personality that is unchangeable. We select it (unconsciously) around the age of 10. Our personality is our worldview, our outlook on life and this is possible to alter at any given point once we become aware of it.
• Change is uncomfortable and scary and requires great courage.

On interpersonal relationships:
• When we enter into interpersonal relationships, it is inevitable that to a greater or lesser extent we will get hurt and we will hurt someone too.
• All problems are interpersonal relationship problems. There is no such thing as worry that is completely defined by the individual; so called internal worry does not exist. Whatever the worry that may arise, the shadows of other people are always present. So when we experience a feeling of inferiority, that’s not an objective inferiority (an objective fact) we’re feeling, but a subjective feeling of inferiority (a subjective interpretation) that arises by comparing ourselves with others. I absolutely loved the discussion on the feeling of inferiority v. inferiority complex and how close and intertwined the later is with the superiority complex. Instead of what we tend to think that they are at opposite poles, they actually walk hand in hand!
• We are all on the same level playing field and we should only be in a competition with our ideal self, not try to be greater than others. We should just strive to move in a forward direction without competing with another.
• There are 3 social ties : with the world, friendship, and love. Any issues we have in these areas are at the core of our interpersonal relationships issues.
• Wishing to be recognized by other people will lead to a life of following expectations held by other people who want you to be “this kind of person”. If you are not living your life for yourself, then who is going to live it for you?

I loved the concept of “Separation of tasks” – in general, all interpersonal relationship troubles are caused by intruding on other people’s tasks or having one’s own tasks intruded on. Here the concept of task has more a meaning of responsibility.

On freedom and belonging:
• Freedom is not being afraid to be disliked by other people.
• If you are disliked by someone it is proof that you are exercising your freedom and living in freedom and a sign that you are living in accordance with your own principles.
• We’re all looking for a feeling of belonging, to be part of a community. We can only truly belong to a community if we actively commit to a community, not by just being here. But by switching our thinking from “what will this person give me” to “what can I give this person “.
• Community in this book is defined to include the entire universe, the past and the future, and everything from living things to inanimate objects.

On equality and contribution:
• The book makes a distinction between vertical and horizontal relationships, highlighting that all relationships should be horizontal, meaning we are all different yet equal.
• The book further goes to make a point that encouragement in the form of words of gratitude, respect, joy come from horizontal relationships, while rebuke or praise come from passing judgment, from a feeling of superiority, thus vertical relationships.
• The book further makes a distinction between assisting someone versus interfering with their tasks (=responsibilities, life).
As in my drawing above, the book can be summarized as an ongoing cycle:
I have concern for others -> I am beneficial to the community-> I am equal but different to others-> I have worth -> I have courage to face life on my own terms.
3 last thoughts.
* The courage to be happy comes from self-acceptance at a level of being, not from acts.
* Life is not a line but a series of dots, a series of moments called the here and now.
* Life in general has no meaning. But we can assign meaning to life. The only meaning life has is the one we are giving it.

Questions
Session I
1. Adler contended that we do not suffer from the shock of our past experiences or trauma, but instead we make out of them whatever suits our purposes, e.g., to get all of one’s parents’ attention, or to avoid social interactions like what reclusive people do, or an excuse for not changing. Do you agree with him?
2. What’s the difference between ‘I am a pessimist.’ and ‘I have a pessimistic view of the world.’? Do you think of disposition or personality as something with which you are endowed, without any connection to your will, while a point of view can be altered relatively easier?
3. In Adlerian psychology, ‘lifestyle’ is used to describe (replace) one’s personality and disposition. It’s the worldview of that person and their outlook on life. One chose their own lifestyle (‘this kind of self’) at around the age of ten. Please try to recollect things happened when you were 10 years old. Have your personality and disposition remained fundamentally unchanged since then? If not, what do you think are the most significant factors that cause the change?
4. Do you agree that we are living in a competitive world? Do you believe that this competitive worldview may lead people to think of themselves as being either winners or losers? Will it create a tendency towards seeing others as threats or rivals standing in the way of our success since nobody wants to be the loser?
5. Adler advocated for the concept that everyone is different but equal. One should not mix up that difference with good and bad, and superior and inferior. The feeling of inferiority should only come from one’s comparison with one’s ideal self. Is the idea plausible to you? When it comes to chasing success in life, which is better - to compete with others or to compete with yourself?

Session II
6. When you are disliked, or feel that you are being disliked by someone, what state of mind does it impose on you? Based on the concept of separation of tasks, whether or not other people dislike you are their own tasks, you cannot intervene in that. Are you able to embrace this task-separation idea and unconcerned about other people’s judgements? What would you do if you have a boss who doesn’t like you?
7. If you are responsible for training junior staff in the workplace, would you use praise and rebuke (carrot-and-stick) approach to increase the training effectiveness? Do you agree that praise comes from passing judgment, from a feeling of superiority, and could build a ‘vertical’ relationship? How about the argument that behind the praising, consciously or unconsciously, one is trying to manipulate others?
8. The philosopher in the book said that ‘Life is not a straight line but a series of dots, a series of moments called the here and now.’ Since life is not a line, ‘Well planned life is not something to be treated as necessary or unnecessary, as it is impossible.‘ What’s your interpretation of his words? What is your image of life?
9. In addition to what has been discussed above, have you found any of Adler's ideas resonated with you and worthy of putting into practice?

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Agenda:
3:45 ~ 4:00pm Greetings & Free Talk / Ordering Beverage or Meal / Getting Newcomer’s Information
4:00 ~ 4:10pm Opening Remarks / Newcomer’s Self-introduction / Grouping
(Session I)
4:10 ~ 4:50pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
4:50 ~ 5:10pm Summarization (20 mins)
5:10 ~ 5:15pm Regrouping / Instruction Giving / Taking a 10 Minutes Break (Intermission)
(Session II)
5:15 ~ 5:55pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
6:00 ~ 6:20pm Summarization (20 mins)
6:20 ~ 6:30pm Concluding Remarks / Announcements
Meeting Date: As shown on the Subject Line
Meeting Time: 4:00pm – 6:30pm
Meeting Venue: 丹堤咖啡 Dante Coffee (Minimum Order $80)
Address: 台北市濟南路三段25號[MAP]-捷運忠孝新生站3號出口步行3分鐘
Important Notes:
1. We advise participants to print out the discussion questions and bring them to the meeting for reference. As for the supporting articles, feel free to print them out, as well, according to your preference.
2. We suggest that participants read the articles and think about the questions in advance.
3. Newcomers should prepare a two-to-three minute self-introduction in English to deliver when called upon by the host before the start of the discussion. The host may also ask you to give brief feedback about the meeting at the conclusion of the meeting.
4. We conduct the entire meeting in English. All participants should have at least moderate English-conversation skills and be able to articulate your ideas for each discussion question.
5. We welcome newcomers and other guests to attend the meetings and join the discussion freely for three times. After that, we hope you will consider becoming a YoYo English Club member. We charge a NT$1000 lifetime membership fee.
最後由 stephen185 於 週五 7月 24, 2020 5:18 pm 編輯,總共編輯了 1 次。
Janice Wang
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文章: 55
註冊時間: 週六 3月 25, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: 7/25(Sat.) The courage to be disliked (Host:Stephen)

文章 Janice Wang »

The courage to be disliked - the book I missed out on reading a couple of years ago. My free spirit tells me that to be disliked by people I dislike is perfectly even-steven, no inclination to mend fences with them. As for people I love and matter the most to me, and those have supported me through thick and thin in life, I am on cloud nine with them. I complacently believe I can set my interpersonal relationships aside until this very topic emerges. It is challenging for me to contemplate all those philosophical concepts with far-reaching implications.

As far as I could remember, at my age of 10, I must have somehow grown a sense of individuality. My innate disposition and personality started kicking in. I was not as malleable as my parents and teachers thought I was. I began to dance to my tune. They thought I was prematurely rebellious. I value my horizontal span of relationships more than the vertical ones. I no longer perceived viewpoints solely from one source of information, nor saddled by the authority. That was probably the time I gave birth to my will and allowed it to lead a life I desired. It well demonstrates that the viewpoints of a person can be changed as long as we let it be dictated by ourselves, not others.

Like it or not, the universe ushers in competitions and comparisons to prove the fittest survive. How can we get away from the fact? It is not optional for us. We do not have the luxury to afford to be left out. At least we can do is to be a humble winner or a constructive loser to diminish the consequences that may inflict on us or others.

To conclude, everyone desires to be happy in life. However, paying attention to moments of happiness takes effort as it is easy to be carried away by the waves of thoughts and emotions surrounding us. I always tend to plan my life; however, it sometimes just didn’t play out as I hoped. It leads to me zeroing in on why it happened the way it did instead of thinking about the solutions. A vivid example, I let the past meddle in the present. I am delighted that this topic serves as a reminder and helps me notice this very problem so I can shift my focus to make a change for my own good.
最後由 Janice Wang 於 週六 8月 08, 2020 2:00 pm 編輯,總共編輯了 3 次。
Michael-liu
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註冊時間: 週五 4月 24, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: 7/25(Sat.) The courage to be disliked (Host:Stephen)

文章 Michael-liu »

1. The points of this book, "everybody can change", "accept totally who you are, accept you are ordinary", "don't seek approval". In theory, sure, they are all correct and inspirational, but the reality is, easier said than done, as always.

If you graduated from a very well-known university, and most of your classmates are very successful, but you think you have no success and are the so-called "loser". Would you go to your class reunion? If you would, then you achieve what Adler preaches. But I guess very few could do that, including myself. So, Adler is right about one thing. 99% of what bother us is interpersonal relationship.

2. The pain of being disliked is the same as the physical pain of being punched. It is an evolutionary genetic result in human beings. This is why "public speaking" is the number one fear of human, and the second fear is "death", according to a survey.

When I post those quiz questions in our LINE group, I take the risk of being disliked. Some people may think "Michael is arrogant", "Michael is trying to show off", "Michael is trying to get attention". One thing I learned from the video is that I should not say "good job" when people give the correct answer to my quiz. That makes me sound I feel superior.

Stephen, you once said to me in person, "Michael, I learned some vocabularies from your quiz" That means a lot to me.

Janice, I noticed you answerd Kooper's quiz but not mine. I guess maybe you dislike me. If that is the case, I should accept that. Haha....^.^
stephen185
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文章: 183
註冊時間: 週三 5月 30, 2007 8:23 pm

Re: 7/25(Sat.) The courage to be disliked (Host:Stephen)

文章 stephen185 »

Janice Wang 寫:
週五 7月 24, 2020 10:05 am
The courage to be disliked - the book I missed out on reading a couple of years ago. ... It is challenging for me to contemplate all those philosophical concepts with far-reaching implications.
...
...
To conclude, everyone desires to be happy in life. However, paying attention to moments of happiness takes effort as it is easy to be carried away by the waves of thoughts and emotions surrounding us. I always tend to plan my life; however, it sometimes just didn’t play out as I hoped. It leads to me zeroing in on why it happened the way it did instead of thinking about the solutions. A vivid example, I let the past meddle in the present. I am delighted that this topic serves as a reminder and helps me notice this very problem so I can shift my focus to make a change for my goodness.
Although the mentor in the book explains that as compared with other studies of the psyche, Adlerian psychology is more like a psychology of common sense – much of it comes across as things we knew before, I guess it is still a challenge for most of us, if not everyone, to put those ideas into practice in our daily life. However, let's just pause for a while, taking some distance from the daily hustle and bustle, and read his words slowly. Maybe those things we knew before would become crystal clear again and help us make change for our goodness.
Janice Wang
YOYO member
文章: 55
註冊時間: 週六 3月 25, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: 7/25(Sat.) The courage to be disliked (Host:Stephen)

文章 Janice Wang »

Michael-liu 寫:
週五 7月 24, 2020 4:08 pm
.....................
Janice, I noticed you answerd Kooper's quiz but not mine. I guess maybe you dislike me. If that is the case, I should accept that. Haha....^.^

Michael, It took me a little while to get your point. Surprisingly, my unintended quiz interactions would land me to the center of unwanted attention. Hopefully, Kooper wouldn’t over-interpret your post, and I’ll put extra effort into your quiz next time, promise!

Your input with the quiz on our Line thread is a good example of altruism that is beneficial to the yoyo community. I’m thankful for your contributions, and I don’t mind being praised if I get the answer right.

Be cool!
Luis Ko
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文章: 902
註冊時間: 週三 6月 06, 2007 10:18 pm

Re: 7/25(Sat.) The courage to be disliked (Host:Stephen)

文章 Luis Ko »

Michael does have the courage to be disliked, or he wouldn't dare to keep posting quizzes in yoyo line group..

Then again, why bother having extra courage to be disliked? If you do care about some people, you should try your best not to be disliked. Otherwise, if people like you, they like you. If they don't like you, they just don't. There's nothing you really can do lo~ 8)
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
Iris Wu
YOYO member
文章: 709
註冊時間: 週二 5月 20, 2014 4:33 pm

Re: 7/25(Sat.) The courage to be disliked (Host:Stephen)

文章 Iris Wu »

Wow! A series of self-reflection questions for introspection!
Our dear YoYo fellows never stop amazing me with their energy and enthusiasm in soul-searching and pursuing self-betterment!

We are surely living in a competitive world. By looking at these intensive questions and comments from well-versed writers, like Stephen, Janice, Michael, and Luis, I absolutely feel like a loser when examining my own write-up and question list for my upcoming hosting! :)

Once you become a “loser”, then there come subsequent consequences. First, you need to sort out your psychological identity crisis (winner, loser, rivals and threats), and soon you will be inundated with a train of “self-help” advice.
Looking inward, comparing only to the previous version of self, people being different but not superior/inferior and “the courage to be disliked”, are just part of influx of guidance to your “enlightenment”!

Do we really need the courage to be disliked? Liking (for someone) or being liked, much the same as happiness, is a temporary state of mind, so easy to fade away. Conventional wisdom has it that we can never please everyone and nobody has the "whole package" to be liked forever.

In self-help, for every piece of advice, you can always find the exact opposite advice useful, too. I am just learning not to take each advice at face value. Maybe I am finally practicing my teenager rebellion which I missed out at age of 10? :P
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Leon
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註冊時間: 週日 5月 30, 2004 9:55 am

Re: 7/25(Sat.) The courage to be disliked (Host:Stephen)

文章 Leon »

Luis Ko 寫:
週五 7月 24, 2020 10:48 pm

Then again, why bother having extra courage to be disliked? If you do care about some people, you should try your best not to be disliked. Otherwise, if people like you, they like you. If they don't like you, they just don't. There's nothing you really can do lo~ 8)
Maybe we can add a question " The courage to be disliked by the people you care" since people always said "Be yourself".
When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
stephen185
YOYO member
文章: 183
註冊時間: 週三 5月 30, 2007 8:23 pm

Re: 7/25(Sat.) The courage to be disliked (Host:Stephen)

文章 stephen185 »

Michael-liu 寫:
週五 7月 24, 2020 4:08 pm
...
2. The pain of being disliked is the same as the physical pain of being punched. It is an evolutionary genetic result in human beings. This is why "public speaking" is the number one fear of human, and the second fear is "death", according to a survey.
...
Stephen, you once said to me in person, "Michael, I learned some vocabularies from your quiz" That means a lot to me.
Hi, Michael, Thanks for preparing those quizzes. That is really an interesting way to learn vocabularies.
BTW, the idea of "evolutionary genetic result in human beings" sounds intriguing...
stephen185
YOYO member
文章: 183
註冊時間: 週三 5月 30, 2007 8:23 pm

Re: 7/25(Sat.) The courage to be disliked (Host:Stephen)

文章 stephen185 »

Iris Wu 寫:
週六 7月 25, 2020 1:24 am
...
Do we really need the courage to be disliked? Liking (for someone) or being liked, much the same as happiness, is a temporary state of mind, so easy to fade away. Conventional wisdom has it that we can never please everyone and nobody has the "whole package" to be liked forever.

In self-help, for every piece of advice, you can always find the exact opposite advice useful, too. I am just learning not to take each advice at face value. Maybe I am finally practicing my teenager rebellion which I missed out at age of 10? :P
Indeed, we can never please everyone. In fact, as compared to the courage to be disliked, I think one needs to be much braver to live a life in which all people like you, because it will be very very exhausting.

BTW, thanks for revealing your inner voice, "Maybe I am finally practicing my teenager rebellion which I missed out at age of 10". Now I can understand why my wife is hanging out with her girl friends and coming home late much more often than before...
stephen185
YOYO member
文章: 183
註冊時間: 週三 5月 30, 2007 8:23 pm

Re: 7/25(Sat.) The courage to be disliked (Host:Stephen)

文章 stephen185 »

Luis Ko 寫:
週五 7月 24, 2020 10:48 pm
Michael does have the courage to be disliked, or he wouldn't dare to keep posting quizzes in yoyo line group..

Then again, why bother having extra courage to be disliked? If you do care about some people, you should try your best not to be disliked. Otherwise, if people like you, they like you. If they don't like you, they just don't. There's nothing you really can do lo~ 8)
Dear Luis, I always admire your courage for being a might-be-cynic and sceptic person. And I do believe that you are definitely a good guy. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. :)
最後由 stephen185 於 週六 7月 25, 2020 9:06 am 編輯,總共編輯了 1 次。
stephen185
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文章: 183
註冊時間: 週三 5月 30, 2007 8:23 pm

Re: 7/25(Sat.) The courage to be disliked (Host:Stephen)

文章 stephen185 »

Leon 寫:
週六 7月 25, 2020 7:52 am
Luis Ko 寫:
週五 7月 24, 2020 10:48 pm

Then again, why bother having extra courage to be disliked? If you do care about some people, you should try your best not to be disliked. Otherwise, if people like you, they like you. If they don't like you, they just don't. There's nothing you really can do lo~ 8)
Maybe we can add a question " The courage to be disliked by the people you care" since people always said "Be yourself".
Leon, thanks for your suggestion. :)
You are more than welcome to discuss any questions of interest to you in the meeting.
Kooper
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註冊時間: 週三 4月 11, 2007 11:40 pm

Re: 7/25(Sat.) The courage to be disliked (Host:Stephen)

文章 Kooper »

stephen185 寫: • We are not determined by past experiences (or traumas); no experience is in itself a cause of our success or failure. We are determined by the meaning we give our experiences. Yes, these experiences can influence our personality and the influence can be strong, but nothing is determined by those influences.
It reminds me of a research finding introduced in one of previous TED Talks we discussed “How to Make Stress Your Friend” by Kelly McGonigal: whether we see stress as harmful or beneficial determines its impact on health. People who learnt to view stress responses as helpful for their performance are mentally less stressed out, less anxious, more confident, and showed surprisingly healthy physical responses – their blood vessels stayed relaxed while their hearts are pounding. The responses actually look more like what happens in moments of joy and courage.

It proves that human mind is a lot more powerful than we thought. Past experiences (or traumas) themselves are sort of neutral. It is the subjective meanings that we give to the events, in other words how we interpret them, shape who we are now.
Kooper
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文章: 2576
註冊時間: 週三 4月 11, 2007 11:40 pm

Re: 7/25(Sat.) The courage to be disliked (Host:Stephen)

文章 Kooper »

Janice Wang 寫: The courage to be disliked - the book I missed out on reading a couple of years ago. My free spirit tells me that to be disliked by people I dislike is perfectly even-steven, no inclination to mend fences with them. As for people I love and matter the most to me, and those have supported me through thick and thin in life, I am on cloud nine with them. I complacently believe I can set my interpersonal relationships aside until this very topic emerges. It is challenging for me to contemplate all those philosophical concepts with far-reaching implications....
Hi Janice, by curtailing sentence lengths and using more idioms, there is no doubt that you have stepped your writing game up further. It is really a joy reading what you wrote; it is also inspiring for me to witness the transformation taking place to a person like you, who had long been writing so well.

Please don’t get me wrong. I am not making judgement or compliment from a superior angle. The fact is you are way out of my league.
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Laura
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註冊時間: 週二 12月 16, 2003 10:28 am
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Re: 7/25(Sat.) The courage to be disliked (Host:Stephen)

文章 Laura »

Some crimes are made by people with courage, they don't care to be disliked obviously.
So. l do accept this summarization of book as an ongoing cycle:

I have concern for others ->
I am beneficial to the community->
I am equal but different to others->
I have worth ->
I have courage to face life on my own terms.
The best teacher is child,
the worst mistake for one is to abandon oneself,
the greatest treasure in the world is love!
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