10/3 (Sat.) Universal Basic Income (Host: Thomas)

YOYO member
文章: 1
註冊時間: 週五 8月 21, 2020 9:27 pm

10/3 (Sat.) Universal Basic Income (Host: Thomas)

文章 thomas »

From the history record of yoyo website, UBI had been discussed and mentioned several times in previous talks many years ago. Because of covid-19 pandemic, UBI is highly discussed again. Could it be comprehensively implemented in societies? Could it become a solution for the impact of AI, automation? Human beings are continuously progressing from ancient to modern. It would surely get improved day by day. Would you imagine what society would look like in the future? Let us explore the possibilities of UBI which will be a social police in the future.

What’s UBI: also called basic income, citizen's income, citizen's basic income, basic income guarantee, basic living stipend, guaranteed annual income, or universal demogrant, is a theoretical governmental public program for a periodic payment delivered to all citizens of a given population without a means test or work requirement.
ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income

Video1: https://youtu.be/aIL_Y9g7Tg0
Video2: https://youtu.be/A2aBKnr3Ep4

Artical 1: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01993-3
Artical 2: https://www.ft.com/content/5f931514-e46 ... 24ec9edc59

Session I
1. If you can get an amount of money regularly from the government without any conditions.
a. What would you do with that money?
b. How much money do you think can support your basic living cost? Share your opinion, what are items that can count on basic living cost.

2. For most people, work is the way to feed themself and family, no matter how harsh it is.
a. What does work mean to you?
b. Based on Maslow's hierarchy of needs, Which hierarchy are you present? Would you want to achieve higher layers? What could be the way to reach the top?
c. Can you think any work is meaningful, but it wouldn't be on the job market.

3. UBI is a tool that gives employees freedom to choose their job. If UBI implements societies, …
a. Would you quit your job? What are dissatisfied reasons in your job?
b. What would you do afterward?

Session II
1. According to article,
“In the past, technology displaced low-skilled, low-income workers who retrained to take higher-paid jobs. Yet AI-led automation is replacing high-skilled routine work of middle-income jobs. Accountants face significant displacement while the projected fastest job growth is in lower-income roles such as nursing.”

a. Do you think AI and Automation would really impact our workforce in the future?
b. By improving technology, most routine jobs would be replaced by AI or machines. What do you imagine the world to be like hundreds years after? What does work mean to humans? Does UBI have to be implemented? Or even money doesn’t exist in the future?

2. Most criticism of UBI, it would encourage lazy people not to contribute to society.
a. Do you think you would be lazy to work after receiving UBI?
b.Do you think others would be lazy to work after receiving UBI? Do you think that state is just temporary or permanent?
c. If you agree to have UBI, can you think of any disadvantages?If you disagree to have UBI, can you think of any advantages?


3:45 ~ 4:00pm Greetings & Free Talk / Ordering Beverage or Meal / Getting Newcomer’s Information
4:00 ~ 4:10pm Opening Remarks / Newcomer’s Self-introduction / Grouping
(Session I)
4:10 ~ 4:50pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
4:50 ~ 5:10pm Summarization (20 mins)
5:10 ~ 5:15pm Regrouping / Instruction Giving / Taking a 10 Minutes Break (Intermission)
(Session II)
5:15 ~ 5:55pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
6:00 ~ 6:20pm Summarization (20 mins)
6:20 ~ 6:30pm Concluding Remarks / Announcements *************************************************************************************************************************
聚會時間:請準時 4:00 pm 到 ~ 約 6:30 pm 左右結束
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Luis Ko
YOYO member
文章: 932
註冊時間: 週三 6月 06, 2007 10:18 pm

Re: 10/3 (Sat.) Universal Basic Income (Host: Thomas)

文章 Luis Ko »

This video might not be relevant to the topic we are going to discuss, or what the video host says might not be all correct. However, the opinions indeed are thought provoking lo~ 8)
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
Janice Wang
YOYO member
文章: 75
註冊時間: 週六 3月 25, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: 10/3 (Sat.) Universal Basic Income (Host: Thomas)

文章 Janice Wang »

Thomas, congrats on your milestone, your debut, at YOYO. I wish I could be more prepared for my writing by reading all the materials provided thoroughly. Let us hope other yoyoers can help present better thoughts to fill in the blank and right my answers if I miss the bullseye.

The strength of a country’s economy gets determined by the percentage of the available wealth in transmission. The UBI grant is a windfall to me. Thus, no one can stand in the way to stop me from being a frequent contributor to the economy by spending the unconditional cash like a sailor. However, I do not foresee it to come true anytime soon in Taiwan. UBI has been put into action as a band-aid solution in many countries before, but mostly in a smaller testing population instead of on a national scale. None of them finished on a high note.

The primary purpose of UBI is supposed to target reducing poverty. To aim high at taking the liberty or freedom to either choose or quit one’s job with the provision of UBI may go away empty-handed. It requires a government, without budget issues, to hand out sufficient UBI to answer one’s purpose, which is unlikely to happen. Be alert as there are lots of ill, safety, and complaints -free and work around-the-clock bots waiting behind us to take over human jobs.

Machines have made human jobs obsolete for centuries. “Fewer jobs, more machines” is a foreseeable future. The COVID-19 pandemic seems to have sped up the process. Artificial intelligence is becoming more adept at jobs that were once within the limits of humans, making it harder for humans to stay ahead of the game. When the unemployment rate hits record high, it will be the time to accept universal basic income to enter the mainstream.

Neither humans nor machines are not infallible while on the job. When the invention of robots goes awry, and robots outsmart humans as some movies impress us; to be colonized by the Republic of Robots of the future will no longer be the impossible! Then, it is above and beyond my imagination on how robots would take lazy people and UBI into their consideration! It is a problem of humans' own making. The ending of those robot movies seems unable to shed any light at all!
最後由 Janice Wang 於 週六 10月 03, 2020 3:35 pm 編輯,總共編輯了 1 次。
YOYO member
文章: 633
註冊時間: 週五 4月 24, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: 10/3 (Sat.) Universal Basic Income (Host: Thomas)

文章 Michael-liu »

I watched Luis' video completely. Interesting. And I think it is related to the topic.

To be frank, I personally think UBI is a silly idea. Let's assume our country really implements it, and people still want to work, what will happen?

My guess is that since "everyone" has basic income from the goverment, the salary we get from the company we work for will be our current salary minus the amount of basic income. (because the company thinks they don't have to pay us as much as before)

And then, since the goverment budget is from the tax of everybody's salary, so the money goverment can get will be much less than before. And then, how the goverment can still afford to this universal basic income idea?

So, I think the social welfare system thoese Scandinavian countries are implementing is good enough. I don't mind free money to people in need, but free money for "everyone", including rich people who don't need it at all, is just silly.

No offense, just my two cents.
Iris Wu
YOYO member
文章: 739
註冊時間: 週二 5月 20, 2014 4:33 pm

Re: 10/3 (Sat.) Universal Basic Income (Host: Thomas)

文章 Iris Wu »

I am debating whether to stand for UBI or against UBI, either from ideology or practical execution point of view.

From philosophical standpoint, the UBI supporters claim that providing the minimum guaranteed income is a human right to survive. I am wondering who gave us the power to claim the survival right? Are human beings superior to any other organism? Why should other living beings work for their survival and humans get the free handouts? I am a bit unsettled in this regard.

I certainly understand the severe inequality phenomenon and the impacts of upcoming AI technology revolution, but whether the execution of a true UBI is the answer and solution to the above issues is definitely not a beyond a shadow of a doubt in my mind. Mainly, how do we control the rise of living cost to make sure the UBI will meet the basic needs forever? It doesn’t seem to me that there are enough convincing experiment results and promising policies yet.

As a matter of fact, if we intend to play an effective role of devil’s advocate, there are quite a few more negative thoughts on UBI. I am also skeptical about the argument that UBI would free people to work on their interest and consequently be more productive. The Universe 25 experiment and the “Behavioral Sink” theory are worth a lot more for me to contemplate!
YOYO member
文章: 1975
註冊時間: 週三 10月 31, 2007 9:03 am

Re: 10/3 (Sat.) Universal Basic Income (Host: Thomas)

文章 Rock »

It seems that I am one of the few people who believe UBI is the inevitable future. Sigh, why don't you want free money? :drink:
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
YOYO member
文章: 2609
註冊時間: 週三 4月 11, 2007 11:40 pm

Re: 10/3 (Sat.) Universal Basic Income (Host: Thomas)

文章 Kooper »

Attendees(27): Luis, Iris, Rock, Mandy, Kooper, Michael, Morris, Tom, John, Janice, Timothy, David Jr., Jerry, Christine, Shirley, Laura, Wendy, Jessica, Julian, Ramesh, Sabrina, Ken, Julia, Steve, Howard, Jason, Thomas(host)

Hopefully I didn't miss anyone out. :ssmile: