10/10 (Sat)Proud of Taiwan(Host:John)

JohnH
YOYO member
文章: 22
註冊時間: 週日 5月 13, 2018 11:10 pm

10/10 (Sat)Proud of Taiwan(Host:John)

文章 JohnH »

Dear YOYO members:

Since next Sunday is double tenth day— the national holiday I thought I should pick up a topic which fits this special day to Taiwanese. Please take a look at the Youtube clip below and let's bounce ideas off of each other in the discussion. Maybe we can get some inspiration for the hot issue of cross strait relation. Timestamps
00:00 Introduction
03:18 Bomb your borders
05:38 Use your mountains
08:34: Pamper to bad people
10:58: Post-war Switzerland

Session 1 Discussion Questions:

1. In the video, the author mentioned that "neutrality" lies at the core of the foreign policies in Switzerland and they will play by whatever rule they need to in order to stay out of war. What do you think serves as the foundation for the military strategy and foreign policies developed in Tawian? Or what do you think they should be?

2. If Taiwan were to own the nuclear weapon, do you think that would act as a deterrant to shift the balance of power between two sides of the Taiwan strait? How would the situation pan out differently?(There was a time when Taiwan was only two years away from completing nuclear weapon before the whole program was halted)
(Additional reference: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39252502 )

3. If "pamper to bad people" is the necessary evil for Switzerland during the world war II, what do you think is the necessary evil in the cross strait relationship for the sake of Taiwan?

4. If we could turn back the clock and were given a period of 10 years, how would you build Taiwan up given the fact that China will always be a threat? (Hint: from the perspective of geographic location and features, economic interests, historical ties with the countries in the proximity)

Session 2 Discussion Questions:

Recently the U.S government plans to sell seven weapon systems to Taiwan, the largest sales in decades, of which the value amounts to billions. It is believed that this sales, if successfully made, will create a counterbalance to the growing military power of China even though it also puts a large financial burden on the country. Do you support it or not? What are the other ways out? Please share your opinion.

On October, 28th Taiwanese president announced the lifting of ban on pork,containing leanness enhancer—ractopamine, from U.S through "executive order" as opposed to legislation in hope of opening up the door for trade agreement between U.S and Taiwan. Do you think the resulit will turn out differently if it's referred to legislative yuan first prior to the exeuctive order? Is the trade-off worthwhile? Why and why not?

As the ties between Washington and Taiwan deepens, the tension between China and Taiwan in Taiwan strait is also ramping up. A total of 37 aircrafts, including warplanes, crossed the median line of Taiwan strait on September, 18th, followed by the claim made by Chinese government in the next week that "there is no such median line". What do you think Taiwan should do next that will be the best for us?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Agenda:
3:45 ~ 4:00pm Greetings & Free Talk / Ordering Beverage or Meal / Getting Newcomer’s Information
4:00 ~ 4:10pm Opening Remarks / Newcomer’s Self-introduction / Grouping
(Session I)
4:10 ~ 4:50pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
4:50 ~ 5:10pm Summarization (20 mins)
5:10 ~ 5:15pm Regrouping / Instruction Giving / Taking a 10 Minutes Break (Intermission)
(Session II)
5:15 ~ 5:55pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
6:00 ~ 6:20pm Summarization (20 mins)
6:20 ~ 6:30pm Concluding Remarks / Announcements *************************************************************************************************************************
聚會日期:列於該貼文主題內
聚會時間:請準時 4:00 pm 到 ~ 約 6:30 pm 左右結束
星期六聚會地點:丹堤濟南店
地址、電話:台北市濟南路三段25號 地圖 (02) 2740-2350
捷運站:板南線 忠孝新生站 3 號出口
走法:出忠孝新生站 3 號出口後,沿著巷子(忠孝東路三段10巷)走約 2 分鐘,到了濟南路口,左轉走約 2 分鐘即可看到。
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注意事項:
1. 文章是否需要列印請自行斟酌,但與會者請務必自行列印 Questions for discussion。
2. 與會者請先閱讀過文章,並仔細想過所有的問題,謝謝合作!

給新朋友的話:
1. 請事先準備2~3分鐘的英語自我介紹;會議結束前可能會請你發表1~2分鐘的感想。
2. 請事先閱讀文章以及主持人所提的討論問題,並事先寫下自己所欲發表意見的英文。
3. 全程以英語進行,參加者應具備中等英語會話能力,對任一討論問題,能夠以5到10句英文表達個人見解。
4. 在正式加入之前,可以先來觀摩三次,觀摩者亦須參與討論。正式加入需繳交終身會費 NT$1,000。
最後由 JohnH 於 週六 10月 10, 2020 8:59 pm 編輯,總共編輯了 2 次。
Kooper
YOYO member
文章: 2594
註冊時間: 週三 4月 11, 2007 11:40 pm

Re: 10/10 (Sat)******(Host:John)

文章 Kooper »

bring it to top
Luis Ko
YOYO member
文章: 918
註冊時間: 週三 6月 06, 2007 10:18 pm

Re: 10/10 (Sat)******(Host:John)

文章 Luis Ko »

wow~ i don't know if it would be considered as a topic relevant to politics. however, i know it definitely needs bravery to host this topic, if not an unbiased position in regard to this sensitive issue. :lol:
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
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Laura
YOYO member
文章: 336
註冊時間: 週二 12月 16, 2003 10:28 am
聯繫:

Re: 10/10 (Sat)******(Host:John)

文章 Laura »

Very creative, we have a six-stars topic for meeting.
I'm jokking, don't mind ! :)

It's an awesome posting, for we are worthwhile to discuss,
no doubt !
The best teacher is child,
the worst mistake for one is to abandon oneself,
the greatest treasure in the world is love!
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Rock
YOYO member
文章: 1963
註冊時間: 週三 10月 31, 2007 9:03 am

Re: 10/10 (Sat)******(Host:John)

文章 Rock »

That Switzerland video is really interesting. I like it very much. It is useful for the discussion, with some imagination. :lol: BTW, do you think Israel is stupid?
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
Michael-liu
YOYO member
文章: 619
註冊時間: 週五 4月 24, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: 10/10 (Sat)******(Host:John)

文章 Michael-liu »

I think talking about politics is less sensitive than talking about religion or sex, so it should be fine.

3. If "pamper to bad people" is the necessary evil for Switzerland during the world war II, what do you think is the necessary evil in the cross strait relationship for the sake of Taiwan?

I think, obviously, the necessay evil for Taiwan is to "pamper to our political big brother( or father?) --the US.

It is a pity I can not attend the meeting due to family camping.
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Christine
YOYO member
文章: 193
註冊時間: 週三 8月 31, 2005 7:34 pm

Re: 10/10 (Sat)******(Host:John)

文章 Christine »

Bring it to top
JohnH 寫:
週六 10月 03, 2020 1:12 pm
Dear YOYO members:

Since next Sunday is double tenth day— the national holiday I thought I should pick up a topic which fits this special day to Taiwanese. Please take a look at the Youtube clip below and let's bounce ideas off of each other in the discussion. Maybe we can get some inspiration for the hot issue of cross strait relation. Timestamps
00:00 Introduction
03:18 Bomb your borders
05:38 Use your mountains
08:34: Pamper to bad people
10:58: Post-war Switzerland

Session 1 Discussion Questions:

1. In the video, the author mentioned that "neutrality" lies at the core of the foreign policies in Switzerland and they will play by whatever rule they need to in order to stay out of war. What do you think serves as the foundation for the military strategy and foreign policies developed in Tawian? Or what do you think they should be?

2. If Taiwan were to own the nuclear weapon, do you think that would act as a deterrant to shift the balance of power between two sides of the Taiwan strait? How would the situation pan out differently?(There was a time when Taiwan was only two years away from completing nuclear weapon before the whole program was halted)
(Additional reference: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39252502 )

3. If "pamper to bad people" is the necessary evil for Switzerland during the world war II, what do you think is the necessary evil in the cross strait relationship for the sake of Taiwan?

4. If we could turn back the clock and were given a period of 10 years, how would you build Taiwan up given the fact that China will always be a threat? (Hint: from the perspective of geographic location and features, economic interests, historical ties with the countries in the proximity)

Session 2 Discussion Questions:

Recently the U.S government plans to sell seven weapon systems to Taiwan, the largest sales in decades, of which the value amounts to billions. It is believed that this sales, if successfully made, will create a counterbalance to the growing military power of China even though it also puts a large financial burden on the country. Do you support it or not? What are the other ways out? Please share your opinion.

On October, 28th Taiwanese president announced the lifting of ban on pork,containing leanness enhancer—ractopamine, from U.S through "executive order" as opposed to legislation in hope of opening up the door for trade agreement between U.S and Taiwan. Do you think the resulit will turn out differently if it's referred to legislative yuan first prior to the exeuctive order? Is the trade-off worthwhile? Why and why not?

As the ties between Washington and Taiwan deepens, the tension between China and Taiwan in Taiwan strait is also ramping up. A total of 37 aircrafts, including warplanes, crossed the median line of Taiwan strait on September, 18th, followed by the claim made by Chinese government in the next week that "there is no such median line". What do you think Taiwan should do next that will be the best for us?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Agenda:
3:45 ~ 4:00pm Greetings & Free Talk / Ordering Beverage or Meal / Getting Newcomer’s Information
4:00 ~ 4:10pm Opening Remarks / Newcomer’s Self-introduction / Grouping
(Session I)
4:10 ~ 4:50pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
4:50 ~ 5:10pm Summarization (20 mins)
5:10 ~ 5:15pm Regrouping / Instruction Giving / Taking a 10 Minutes Break (Intermission)
(Session II)
5:15 ~ 5:55pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
6:00 ~ 6:20pm Summarization (20 mins)
6:20 ~ 6:30pm Concluding Remarks / Announcements *************************************************************************************************************************
聚會日期:列於該貼文主題內
聚會時間:請準時 4:00 pm 到 ~ 約 6:30 pm 左右結束
星期六聚會地點:丹堤濟南店
地址、電話:台北市濟南路三段25號 地圖 (02) 2740-2350
捷運站:板南線 忠孝新生站 3 號出口
走法:出忠孝新生站 3 號出口後,沿著巷子(忠孝東路三段10巷)走約 2 分鐘,到了濟南路口,左轉走約 2 分鐘即可看到。
最低消費: 80 元

注意事項:
1. 文章是否需要列印請自行斟酌,但與會者請務必自行列印 Questions for discussion。
2. 與會者請先閱讀過文章,並仔細想過所有的問題,謝謝合作!

給新朋友的話:
1. 請事先準備2~3分鐘的英語自我介紹;會議結束前可能會請你發表1~2分鐘的感想。
2. 請事先閱讀文章以及主持人所提的討論問題,並事先寫下自己所欲發表意見的英文。
3. 全程以英語進行,參加者應具備中等英語會話能力,對任一討論問題,能夠以5到10句英文表達個人見解。
4. 在正式加入之前,可以先來觀摩三次,觀摩者亦須參與討論。正式加入需繳交終身會費 NT$1,000。
JohnH
YOYO member
文章: 22
註冊時間: 週日 5月 13, 2018 11:10 pm

Re: 10/10 (Sat)******(Host:John)

文章 JohnH »

Warm-up quiz
The statistics shown below for questions one and two are from the recent survey conducted by “Taiwan Public Opinion Foundation”.
(https://reurl.cc/7o4m2Q)
1. What percentage of Taiwanese believe that U.S will send the troops to defend Taiwan when China launches an attack?
Ans: 60%
2. What percentage of Taiwanese favor closer political relation with China?
Ans: 36%
3. How much is taiwan’s military expenditure on average?
(https://www.globalfirepower.com/defense ... budget.asp
https://reurl.cc/WLAYre)
Ans: 10 billion$
4. What percentage of GDP does this defense budget account for?
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... penditures)
Ans: 2.2%
Military expenditure and Military expenditure as percentage of GDP(billion$)
U.S 732 3.4%
China 261 1.9%
Japan 47.6 0.9%
Israel 20.5 5.3%
5. What is taiwan’s military power ranking in the world in the year 2020?
(ranked by the website “global fire power “)
(https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp)
Ans:
26th
6. What is Taiwan’s largest trading partner in 2019?
(http://www.worldstopexports.com/taiwans ... -partners/)
Ans:
China(28% Taiwan’s total exports)
United states(14.1%)
Hongkong (12.3%)
7. What is the theme for Taiwan’s 109th national day?
Ans:
Each year we have different logo, theme and skin colors
Proud of Taiwan-2020
Taiwan forward-2019
圖檔
最後由 JohnH 於 週六 10月 10, 2020 9:22 pm 編輯,總共編輯了 4 次。
JohnH
YOYO member
文章: 22
註冊時間: 週日 5月 13, 2018 11:10 pm

Re: 10/10 (Sat)Proud of Taiwan(Host:John)

文章 JohnH »

Michael-liu 寫:
週五 10月 09, 2020 9:49 pm
I think talking about politics is less sensitive than talking about religion or sex, so it should be fine.

3. If "pamper to bad people" is the necessary evil for Switzerland during the world war II, what do you think is the necessary evil in the cross strait relationship for the sake of Taiwan?

I think, obviously, the necessay evil for Taiwan is to "pamper to our political big brother( or father?) --the US.

It is a pity I can not attend the meeting due to family camping.
Thanks. It's the thought that counts. Having a wonderful time with your family.
Iris Wu
YOYO member
文章: 729
註冊時間: 週二 5月 20, 2014 4:33 pm

Re: 10/10 (Sat)Proud of Taiwan(Host:John)

文章 Iris Wu »

Kudos to the host for preparing such an interesting set of statistics for warm-up and high-quality questions for the meeting discussion!

Some thoughts on the arguments posted in the LINE group (about KMT’s unexpected requests):
1) Given the fact that 60% of Taiwanese believe that U.S will send the troops to defend Taiwan when China launches an attack (First statistic number in the warm-up questions):
What is the basis for the majority Taiwanese to believe so? What’s wrong to ask for further confirmation, if majority of Taiwanese so naively believe it?
(If the requests are meaningless, the belief is probably even more unfounded and unsustainable, isn’t it?)

2) In the meeting discussion, almost all unanimously think those expensive and high-end arms purchases are high on prestige but of limited use while in actual wars.
It would be nice to know the percentage of Taiwanese believe that we can rely on these prestigious platforms to secure Taiwan when invaded.

3) Furthermore, do we have statistics for the percentage of Taiwanese think governments (or procurement agents) received substantial amount of commission or some kind of “paying off” from this kind of arms deals?
I bet the percentage is high.

What would be better ways to utilize the funds to make Taiwan truly indispensable between these superpowers?
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Rock
YOYO member
文章: 1963
註冊時間: 週三 10月 31, 2007 9:03 am

Re: 10/10 (Sat)Proud of Taiwan(Host:John)

文章 Rock »

圖檔

I served in the navy for 4.9 years. Two years on PFG-1101. It was 30 years ago. At that time, Taiwan was rich. This single ship cost NT.30 billion. It was the most advanced battle ship in Taiwan at that time, and as the first crew, we had the best people from the navy. Everyone was with a college or university degree, except for petty officers and sailors working in the kitchen and laundry.

The officers and petty officers of important positions, like CIC or missiles, were trained in a naval base in Florida for an year. When they came back, the rest of the crew joined them and trained for another 6 months.

In the end of an extensive training lasted for 100 days, at the 97th day, a S70C helicopter crashed when it was trying to land onboard. We then had to stay in the sea for a week searching for the co-pilot's body, and took his sad young wife and old mother to the sea to burn some paper money for him. They cried a lot.

Two years later, after I was discharged from the navy, in another major drill, PFG-1101 shot a target-pulling plane by accident. 7 people were killed. My captain lost his job. The petty officer in charge of the CIWS was punished by the military law.

It's been 30 years. ROC navy now owns a fleet of ships bought from the US and France. I truely wish there is no war in Taiwan, and they can always safely come back from the sea. :?
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
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Rock
YOYO member
文章: 1963
註冊時間: 週三 10月 31, 2007 9:03 am

Re: 10/10 (Sat)Proud of Taiwan(Host:John)

文章 Rock »

Iris Wu 寫:
週日 10月 11, 2020 8:09 am

3) ...substantial amount of commission or some kind of “paying off” from this kind of arms deals?
I bet the percentage is high.
Only colonel 尹 can tell the answer. :shock:
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
JohnH
YOYO member
文章: 22
註冊時間: 週日 5月 13, 2018 11:10 pm

Re: 10/10 (Sat)Proud of Taiwan(Host:John)

文章 JohnH »

Iris Wu 寫:
週日 10月 11, 2020 8:09 am
Kudos to the host for preparing such an interesting set of statistics for warm-up and high-quality questions for the meeting discussion!

Some thoughts on the arguments posted in the LINE group (about KMT’s unexpected requests):
1) Given the fact that 60% of Taiwanese believe that U.S will send the troops to defend Taiwan when China launches an attack (First statistic number in the warm-up questions):
What is the basis for the majority Taiwanese to believe so? What’s wrong to ask for further confirmation, if majority of Taiwanese so naively believe it?
(If the requests are meaningless, the belief is probably even more unfounded and unsustainable, isn’t it?)

2) In the meeting discussion, almost all unanimously think those expensive and high-end arms purchases are high on prestige but of limited use while in actual wars.
It would be nice to know the percentage of Taiwanese believe that we can rely on these prestigious platforms to secure Taiwan when invaded.

3) Furthermore, do we have statistics for the percentage of Taiwanese think governments (or procurement agents) received substantial amount of commission or some kind of “paying off” from this kind of arms deals?
I bet the percentage is high.

What would be better ways to utilize the funds to make Taiwan truly indispensable between these superpowers?
In response to question three, I think the questions asked in the survey might not be that straight forward(They are tonned down especially when it comes to commission and bribery). They probably will change the wording and the result will be reflected to the question somewhere along the line of " how much do you trust our government?".

As to question one, I need to apologize for sending the wrong link( What I wanted to show in the first place was that KMT might be reforming now and having the new political climate). But I do find the content of that article interesting after reading. In my opinion, what the author attempts to convey is that on the surface KMT just made an unexpected move in line with DPP but "Are they really on the same page?" is the issue we should zero in on. It might be just a smokescreen for something they are up to next. Considering the yourger demographics regarding cross-strait issue shown in the statistics, the majority of them don't want our government staying too close to China. With that being said, it is prudent to tweak the strategy aiming for the votes of young demographics by shrugging off the image "oppose for the sake of opposition" in our minds. Are they really reforming on the inside in order to keep in step with the voters and trends? I guess that's something we need to keep eyes on.
Michael-liu
YOYO member
文章: 619
註冊時間: 週五 4月 24, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: 10/10 (Sat)Proud of Taiwan(Host:John)

文章 Michael-liu »

About the U.S government plans to sell seven weapon systems to Taiwan, I happened to watch the following video yesterday, and 帥化民將軍 gives his very professional opinion about this issue. You can watch from 23:40 of the video.
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Rock
YOYO member
文章: 1963
註冊時間: 週三 10月 31, 2007 9:03 am

Re: 10/10 (Sat)Proud of Taiwan(Host:John)

文章 Rock »

JohnH 寫:
週日 10月 11, 2020 11:04 pm

...Considering the younger demographics regarding cross-strait issue shown in the statistics, the majority of them don't want our government staying too close to China. With that being said, it is prudent to tweak the strategy aiming for the votes of young demographics by shrugging off the image "oppose for the sake of opposition" in our minds. Are they really reforming on the inside in order to keep in step with the voters and trends? I guess that's something we need to keep eyes on.
Personally, I think those proposals from KMT are not intended to please the so-called "the majority of young people". On the contrary, they are trying to give DPP more problems, and challenging the belief of the so-called "the majority of young people".

1. DPP said that the USA and Taiwan are allies.
Since Taiwan is the ally of the USA and China is the enemy, then why the USA and China have a diplomatic relationship while Taiwan, as an ally on the front line of war, cannot have a diplomatic relationship with the USA?

2. DPP said that we are facing a great danger of war. We need to buy more weapons.
Since the danger of war is impending, why are the government not following the examples of Israel or South Korea and ask people from age 20 to serve in the military, like we used to do?

We all know the answers. (But, surprisingly, some people in Taiwan really don't know what is going on.)

The problem is, KMT doesn't have a solution, either. Some of its supporters said that it's good that KMT now really know how to be a true opposition party, that they finally know how to fight DPP.

But is it good for Taiwan? We all know the answer. Again, some people don't know, and don't care. Sadly to say, I find myself becoming one of them now.
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
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