Dear all, I'm Bill:
Sometimes you and your mate have a fight. Conflict seems to be part of love. This article focuses on married couples but it's also suitable for all of us. Let's get ready to find good solutions to the conflicts between you and your mate!
I excerpt some concepts from the article and help us to find a good way to manage couples' conflict.
Psychologists have seen with their own eyes that the overwhelming majority of couples start out with true love and great expectations. But mounting evidence suggests we get into trouble for a very humbling reason. We just don't know how to handle the negative feelings that are the unavoidable by-product of the differences between two people, the very differences that attract them to each other in the first place. Think of it as the friction any two bodies would generate rubbing against each other countless times each day.
As a result, a growing number of researchers and clinicians have come to the conclusion that most unhappy couples don't so much need therapy as they do education. Education in how relationships work, and the specific skills that make them work well.
"We haven't had the revolution we need about love," "Couples who marry now don't do anything different despite knowing that 50 percent of them will be divorced in a few years. They think their love is so special they'll make it. They don't realize that the survival of marriage is not about love, it's about skills. It's a skill to know how not to escalate a conflict if your relationship isn't working. It's not that you picked the wrong person. You need smart love."
Couple Communication-by Miller
....couples must shift from a reliance on the external--extended family, church--to an internal support system, where they can talk about issues and work out solutions."
....effective conflict resolution starts with the self--self-awareness, self-caring, self-honesty, knowing what one wants and valuing it enough to speak up for it clearly. "Lots of pathology grows out of not knowing yourself," he says. "Caring is listening to yourself, and owning what you've done and haven't done." Then listen to your partner do the same.
Relationship Enhancement(RE)-by Bernard Guerney
Its starting point is empathy, or compassion training--learning to see things from a partner's perspective. Empathy is what people are really seeking in marriage, and this expectation represents a major break with the past: "People are looking for someone to be emotionally supportive, a friend, a helpmate, a soulmate."
First and foremost in RE is empathic listening, then comes empathic responding. Partners learn how to express themselves in an honest way that helps their mate preserve their self-image without invoking defensiveness. "You need to present your pain--pain your partner has caused--in the context of your love for him or her, so he or she will be willing to make changes," says Guerney. "To convey one's feelings to one's partner is transformative to both."
......that marriage partners typically don't express their needs. Over time, many learn not to ask for what they want--while they secretly wish their partners understood these wants. "Their frustration builds," "so then they ask for what they want--but in an attacking way. And that guarantees they won't get it. Hostilities worsen and partners withdraw." People have to learn to ask for what they want in a nonthreatening way that's likely to lead to cooperation. "It creates a positive cycle that keeps love alive and growing,"
Premarital Relationship Enhancement(PREP)- by Markman
The technique, says Markman, is deceptively simple. "The Speaker" speaks, usually stating a complaint--without placing blame: It really makes me angry when you don't call and dinner is waiting on the table. "The Listener" doesn't respond or justify him or herself; he or she just demonstrates they've heard the comment by repeating it. "To be heard is a powerful tool by itself," Markman says. "It's at the core of all intimate relationships. You don't even need to solve the problem. In fact, it's critical not to resolve things, and just be heard by your partner. People want understanding from each other, not resolution. Couples are really arguing over things from the past. Once they clear the air, things get resolved by means of acceptance." During the private sessions, conducted by trained consultants, couples work on issues they haven't been able to resolve on their own.
We can work out-by Clifford Notarius
.....partners are not good at giving immediate feedback on how their messages are being received. This is especially true of unhappy couples. ....We Can Work It highlights the importance of expecting success. Couples who believe they can resolve their differences remain happy even under stress......
"We're all lousy listeners," he says, "because we're all fragile. We don't want to hear we're the source of our partner's pain." To help people be come aware of how their words affect each other, Notarius designates one partner as "the Listener," who holds up reaction cards--large signs with either a plus, minus, or neutral sign--as "the Speaker" speaks. Absent such clear feedback, he says, spouses don't understand why their partner's later response is an attack.
Marriage Survival Kit--by Gottman
"Everybody messes up," "The four horsemen of the marital apocalypse that I identified--criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling--are predictors of divorce. Everybody does them to some degree. But some couples deal with them successfully."
He says that what makes couples' attempts at repairing their relationships work is not how they fight but what goes on in everyday, relaxed situations. These situations give partners a positive perspective, so that when they get a blast of negativity from their spouse, they can ignore it and take in only the information in what's being said. In short, it's the mindless, mundane moments of marriage that are the makers of romance.
Happy couples find ways of knowing one another and updating the information regularly. "A fondness and admiration system is active, particularly in the husbands," "Those guys are thinking about the stuff they love and admire in their partners, even when they're not together. If you were to open up their skulls, you'd see they allocate a lot more brain cells to their marriages and the world of their partners than guys who wind up divorced."
PRACTICAL APPLICATION OF RELATIONSHIP SKILLS
Rules for the Speaker:
1. Speak for yourself. Don't mind read.
2. Keep statements brief. Don't go on and on.
3. Stop and let the Listener paraphrase what you say.
Rules for the Listener:
1. Paraphrase what you hear the Speaker say.
2. Focus on the Speaker's message. Don't rebut.
Rules for Both the Speaker and the Listener:
1. The Speaker has the floor.
2. The Speaker keeps the floor while the Listener paraphrases.
3. Share the floor.
Five basic skills for conflict resolution by John Gottman
1. Use a softened start-up. Present your complaints without criticism. Criticism involves a global attack or blaming of a partner, and only incites defensiveness.
2. Accept influence. Positively take in your partner's attempts to request things of you. In good marriages, both men and women freely give and receive influence from each other. Since women are already good at accepting influence from men, Gottman finds, a husband's role becomes critical in predicting whether a marriage will survive. To the degree that men can accept influence from their wives, marriages succeed.
3. Repair, or put the brakes on conflict. This means doing anything to halt or reverse negativity. Gottman gives couples a 72-point repair checklist, which includes statements such as "I'm feeling sad," and "Let's start all over again." Even "Will you shut up and listen" is usually a repair attempt.
4. Make use of physiologic soothing. Men are more physiologically aroused during conflict--a factor that often prompts withdrawal, which is deadly for relationships. They will remain engaged in problem-solving only if they or their partners take specific steps to calm them down. One of the best ways to do this is to declare a "time out" during heated discussions, and reconvene after at least 20 minutes of thinking about something else, or nothing at all.
5. De-escalate discord. In good marriages, couples actively de-escalate conflicts by doing things like injecting humor into situations or planting a kiss on their partner's cheek. Unfortunately, this is the one behavior Gottman admits he can't program. It just happens when couples have a positive perspective.
Reference
http://cms.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-962.html
Session 1.
Q1 Won't you think it is a wonderful thing if you and your gf/bf could comunicate without a word? Or, pherhaps you had some good experiences with your lover that you would like to share with us today.
Q2. Sometimes arguing is regarded as a way to communicate and conflicting seems unavoidable for couples. What do you think about it? How do you resovle it when you're in conflict with your gf/bf? Please give us some good experiences or the ways you deal with it!
Q3 To make sense of every argument, do you have any ideas for us to understand how to play a good speaker or a good listener!
Session 2
Let us give some feedback about the following concepts that psychologists provided :(Choose any one you want to share to each other)
1. Having a good relationship is a skill, They don't realize that the survival of marriage is not about love, it's about skills. It's a skill to know how not to escalate a conflict if your relationship isn't working. It's not that you picked the wrong person. You need smart love."
2. Couples' conflicts can be resolve by "psychoeducation." What is your way to improve your relationship by education, ex.from taking courses or reading books...?
3......learning to see things from a partner's perspective,....to imagine themselves as the other person.
4.Guerney encourages couples to look for feelings and motives their partners haven't expressed. Do you often withhold your feelings, good or bad, to your mate? Or you are so direct to express your feelings to mate that may sometimes hurt her/him!
5.""To be heard is a powerful tool by itself," It's at the core of all intimate relationships. You don't even need to solve the problem. In fact, it's critical not to resolve things, and just be heard by your partner.
6.Partners are not good at giving immediate feedback on how their messages are being received. This is especially true of unhappy couples.
7.We oftenhave a need for self-protection-that distort the unpleasant messages our partners send. What's more, we're usually busy preparing our rebuttal. Can you sometimes give up your own beliefs and accept the difference between you and your mate?
8.We're all lousy listeners," "because we're all fragile. We don't want to hear we're the source of our partner's pain."To help people be come aware of how their words affect each other,one partner as "the Listener," who holds up reaction cards--large signs with either a plus, minus, or neutral sign--as "the Speaker" speaks. Such a good way, you can try someday!
9. You can share your own experience about couples' communication.
======================================================================================
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2. 請事先閱討論主題相關內容以及host所提的問題，並事先寫下自己所欲發表意見的英文。
3. 來之前請先讀一下在討論主題，思考一下如何回答及討論。
4. 在正式加入之前（繳交可退還之押金NT$1,000)，可以先來觀摩三次。
How to Manage Couples' Conflict! (6/22,Wed)
How to Manage Couples' Conflict! (6/22,Wed)
最後由 bill 於 週六 6月 18, 2005 1:01 am 編輯，總共編輯了 2 次。
[佳作] 英文吵架109句
001. Stop complaining! 別發牢騷！
002. You make me sick! 你真讓我噁心！
003. What’s wrong with you? 你怎麼回事？
004. You shouldn’t have done that! 你真不應該那樣做!
005. You’re a jerk! 你是個廢物/混球！
006. Don’t talk to me like that! 別那樣和我說話!
007. Who do you think you are? 你以為你是誰？
008. What’s your problem? 你怎麼回事啊？
009. I hate you! 我討厭你 ！
010. I don’t want to see your face! 我不願再見到你！
011. You’re crazy! 你瘋了!
012. Are you insane/crazy/out of your mind? 你瘋了嗎？（美國人絕對常用！）
013. Don’t bother me. 別煩我。
014. Knock it off. 少來這一套。
015. Get out of my face. 從我面前消失！
016. Leave me alone. 走開。
017. Get lost .滾開！
018. Take a hike! 哪兒涼快哪兒歇著去吧。
019. You piss me off. 你氣死我了。
020. It’s none of your business. 關你屁事！
021. What’s the meaning of this? 這是什麼意思？
022. How dare you! 你敢！
023. Cut it out. 省省吧。
024. You stupid jerk! 你這蠢豬！
025. You have a lot of nerve. 臉皮真厚。
026. I’m fed up. 我厭倦了。
027. I can’t take it anymore. 我受不了了！（李陽老師常用）
028. I’ve had enough of your garbage. 我聽膩了你的廢話。
029. Shut up! 閉嘴！
030. What do you want? 你想怎麼樣？
031. Do you know what time it is? 你知道現在都幾點嗎？
032. What were you thinking? 你腦子進水啊？
033. How can you say that? 你怎麼可以這樣說？
034. Who says? 誰說的？
035. That’s what you think! 那才是你腦子裏想的！
036. Don’t look at me like that. 別那樣看著我。
037. What did you say? 你說什麼？
038. You are out of your mind. 你腦子有毛病！
039. You make me so mad.你氣死我了啦。
040. Drop dead. 去死吧！
041. I don't give a . 我才不管(理都不理)呢。
042. Don’t give me your ****. 別跟我胡扯。
043. Don’t give me your excuses/ No more excuses. 別找借口。
044. You’re a pain in the ass. 你這討厭鬼。
045. You’re an asshole. 你這缺德鬼。
046. You bastard! 你這雜種！
047. Get over yourself. 別自以為是。
048. You’re nothing to me. 你對我什麼都不是。
049. It’s not my fault. 不是我的錯。
050. You look guilty. 你看上去心虛。
051. I can’t help it. 我沒辦法。
052. That’s your problem. 那是你的問題。
053. I don’t want to hear it. 我不想聽！
054. Get off my back. 少跟我囉嗦。
055. Give me a break. 饒了我吧。
056. Who do you think you’re talking to? 你以為你在跟誰說話？
057. Look at this mess! 看看這爛攤子！
058. You’ re so careless. 你真粗心。
059. Why on earth didn’t you tell me the truth? 你到底為什麼不跟我說實話？
060. I’m about to explode! 我肺都快要氣炸了！
061. What a stupid idiot! 真是白痴一個！
062. I’m not going to put up with this! 我再也受不了啦！
063. I never want to see your face again! 我再也不要見到你！
064. That’s terrible. 真糟糕！
065. Just look at what you’ve done! 看看你都做了些什麼！
066. I wish I had never met you. 我真後悔這輩子遇到你！
067. You’re a disgrace. 你真丟人！
068. I’ll never forgive you! 我永遠都不會饒恕你！
069. Don’t nag me! 別在我面前嘮叨！
070. I’m sick of it. 我都膩了。
071. You’re such a ! 你這個婊子!
072. Stop screwing/fooling/ messing around! 別鬼混了！
073. Mind your own business! 管好你自己的事！
074. You’re just a good for nothing bum! 你真是一個廢物！/ 你一無是處！
075. You’ve gone too far! 你太過分了！
076. I loathe you! 我討厭你！
077. I detest you! 我恨你！
078. Get the hell out of here! 滾開!
079. Don’t be that way! 別那樣！
080. Can’t you do anything right? 成事不足，敗事有餘。
081. You’re impossible. 你真不可救藥。
082. Don’t touch me! 別碰我！
083. Get away from me! 離我遠一點兒！
084. Get out of my life. 我不願再見到你。/ 從我的生活中消失吧。
085. You’re a joke! 你真是一個小醜！
086. Don’t give me your attitude. 別跟我擺架子。
087. You’ll be sorry. 你會後悔的。
088. We’re through. 我們完了！
089. Look at the mess you’ve made! 你搞得一團糟！
090. You’ve ruined everything. 全都讓你搞砸了。
091. I can’t believe your never . 你好大的膽子！
092. You’re away too far. 你太過分了。
093. I can’t take you any more! 我再也受不了你啦！
094. I’m telling you for the last time! 我最後再告訴你一次！
095. I could kill you! 我宰了你！
096. That’s the stupidest thing I've ever heard! 那是我聽到的最愚蠢的事。(比爾蓋茨常用)
097. I can’t believe a word you say. 我才不信你呢!
098. You never tell the truth！你從來就不說實話！
099. Don’t push me ! 別逼我！
100. Enough is enough! 夠了夠了！
101. Don’t waste my time anymore. 別再浪費我的時間了！
102. Don’t make so much noise. I’m working. 別吵，我在幹活。
103. It’s unfair. 太不公平了。
104. I’m very disappointed. 真讓我失望。
105. Don’t panic! 別怕!
106. What do you think you are doing? 你知道你在做什麼嗎？
107. Don’t you dare come back again! 你敢再回來！
108. You asked for it. 你自找的。
109. Nonsense! 鬼話！
from http://blog.sina.com.tw/archive.php?blo ... ry&id=7795
001. Stop complaining! 別發牢騷！
002. You make me sick! 你真讓我噁心！
003. What’s wrong with you? 你怎麼回事？
004. You shouldn’t have done that! 你真不應該那樣做!
005. You’re a jerk! 你是個廢物/混球！
006. Don’t talk to me like that! 別那樣和我說話!
007. Who do you think you are? 你以為你是誰？
008. What’s your problem? 你怎麼回事啊？
009. I hate you! 我討厭你 ！
010. I don’t want to see your face! 我不願再見到你！
011. You’re crazy! 你瘋了!
012. Are you insane/crazy/out of your mind? 你瘋了嗎？（美國人絕對常用！）
013. Don’t bother me. 別煩我。
014. Knock it off. 少來這一套。
015. Get out of my face. 從我面前消失！
016. Leave me alone. 走開。
017. Get lost .滾開！
018. Take a hike! 哪兒涼快哪兒歇著去吧。
019. You piss me off. 你氣死我了。
020. It’s none of your business. 關你屁事！
021. What’s the meaning of this? 這是什麼意思？
022. How dare you! 你敢！
023. Cut it out. 省省吧。
024. You stupid jerk! 你這蠢豬！
025. You have a lot of nerve. 臉皮真厚。
026. I’m fed up. 我厭倦了。
027. I can’t take it anymore. 我受不了了！（李陽老師常用）
028. I’ve had enough of your garbage. 我聽膩了你的廢話。
029. Shut up! 閉嘴！
030. What do you want? 你想怎麼樣？
031. Do you know what time it is? 你知道現在都幾點嗎？
032. What were you thinking? 你腦子進水啊？
033. How can you say that? 你怎麼可以這樣說？
034. Who says? 誰說的？
035. That’s what you think! 那才是你腦子裏想的！
036. Don’t look at me like that. 別那樣看著我。
037. What did you say? 你說什麼？
038. You are out of your mind. 你腦子有毛病！
039. You make me so mad.你氣死我了啦。
040. Drop dead. 去死吧！
041. I don't give a . 我才不管(理都不理)呢。
042. Don’t give me your ****. 別跟我胡扯。
043. Don’t give me your excuses/ No more excuses. 別找借口。
044. You’re a pain in the ass. 你這討厭鬼。
045. You’re an asshole. 你這缺德鬼。
046. You bastard! 你這雜種！
047. Get over yourself. 別自以為是。
048. You’re nothing to me. 你對我什麼都不是。
049. It’s not my fault. 不是我的錯。
050. You look guilty. 你看上去心虛。
051. I can’t help it. 我沒辦法。
052. That’s your problem. 那是你的問題。
053. I don’t want to hear it. 我不想聽！
054. Get off my back. 少跟我囉嗦。
055. Give me a break. 饒了我吧。
056. Who do you think you’re talking to? 你以為你在跟誰說話？
057. Look at this mess! 看看這爛攤子！
058. You’ re so careless. 你真粗心。
059. Why on earth didn’t you tell me the truth? 你到底為什麼不跟我說實話？
060. I’m about to explode! 我肺都快要氣炸了！
061. What a stupid idiot! 真是白痴一個！
062. I’m not going to put up with this! 我再也受不了啦！
063. I never want to see your face again! 我再也不要見到你！
064. That’s terrible. 真糟糕！
065. Just look at what you’ve done! 看看你都做了些什麼！
066. I wish I had never met you. 我真後悔這輩子遇到你！
067. You’re a disgrace. 你真丟人！
068. I’ll never forgive you! 我永遠都不會饒恕你！
069. Don’t nag me! 別在我面前嘮叨！
070. I’m sick of it. 我都膩了。
071. You’re such a ! 你這個婊子!
072. Stop screwing/fooling/ messing around! 別鬼混了！
073. Mind your own business! 管好你自己的事！
074. You’re just a good for nothing bum! 你真是一個廢物！/ 你一無是處！
075. You’ve gone too far! 你太過分了！
076. I loathe you! 我討厭你！
077. I detest you! 我恨你！
078. Get the hell out of here! 滾開!
079. Don’t be that way! 別那樣！
080. Can’t you do anything right? 成事不足，敗事有餘。
081. You’re impossible. 你真不可救藥。
082. Don’t touch me! 別碰我！
083. Get away from me! 離我遠一點兒！
084. Get out of my life. 我不願再見到你。/ 從我的生活中消失吧。
085. You’re a joke! 你真是一個小醜！
086. Don’t give me your attitude. 別跟我擺架子。
087. You’ll be sorry. 你會後悔的。
088. We’re through. 我們完了！
089. Look at the mess you’ve made! 你搞得一團糟！
090. You’ve ruined everything. 全都讓你搞砸了。
091. I can’t believe your never . 你好大的膽子！
092. You’re away too far. 你太過分了。
093. I can’t take you any more! 我再也受不了你啦！
094. I’m telling you for the last time! 我最後再告訴你一次！
095. I could kill you! 我宰了你！
096. That’s the stupidest thing I've ever heard! 那是我聽到的最愚蠢的事。(比爾蓋茨常用)
097. I can’t believe a word you say. 我才不信你呢!
098. You never tell the truth！你從來就不說實話！
099. Don’t push me ! 別逼我！
100. Enough is enough! 夠了夠了！
101. Don’t waste my time anymore. 別再浪費我的時間了！
102. Don’t make so much noise. I’m working. 別吵，我在幹活。
103. It’s unfair. 太不公平了。
104. I’m very disappointed. 真讓我失望。
105. Don’t panic! 別怕!
106. What do you think you are doing? 你知道你在做什麼嗎？
107. Don’t you dare come back again! 你敢再回來！
108. You asked for it. 你自找的。
109. Nonsense! 鬼話！
from http://blog.sina.com.tw/archive.php?blo ... ry&id=7795
對愛的表達
1. I have a crush on you. 我喜歡你
2. You are the most amazing woman that I have ever met.妳是我遇過最棒的女人
3. Could this be love? 這就是愛嗎?
4. He is perfect for me. 對我來說,他是滿分的
5. I am crazy about/for her! 我瘋也似地愛她
6. I have just met the woman of my life.我遇到我這輩子的女人了
7. There's no chemistry between us. 我們之間沒有愛情的火花
8. She cramps my style. 她不是我喜歡的那型
9. I am so into her. 我真的好喜歡她
10. She gives me reason to live. 她給我活下去的理由
11. You light up my life. 你點亮了我的生命
12. You complete me. 有了你, 我的生命才完整
13. He is all I need. 有他就夠了
14. That womanizer hits on every woman he sees. 那花心傢伙見一個愛一個
15. I am in search of romance. 我在尋覓浪漫
16. I am yours. 我是你的
17. I adore you. 我愛慕您
18. I am hopelessly in love with you. 我無可救藥地愛著你
19. I feel as if I am on top of the world when I am with you. 跟你在一起時,我覺得自己到了世界的頂點了
20. Whenever you kiss me, I feel moonstruck. 每次你吻我,我就像被月亮打到一樣
21. You take my breath away and leave me breathless. 你叫我窒息
22. You intoxicate me. 你蠱惑著我
23. You are driving me insane. 你讓我瘋狂
24. Let's go steady. 我們穩定下來吧
25. You are the one who holds the key to my heart. 你掌握開啟我心扉的鑰匙
1. I have a crush on you. 我喜歡你
2. You are the most amazing woman that I have ever met.妳是我遇過最棒的女人
3. Could this be love? 這就是愛嗎?
4. He is perfect for me. 對我來說,他是滿分的
5. I am crazy about/for her! 我瘋也似地愛她
6. I have just met the woman of my life.我遇到我這輩子的女人了
7. There's no chemistry between us. 我們之間沒有愛情的火花
8. She cramps my style. 她不是我喜歡的那型
9. I am so into her. 我真的好喜歡她
10. She gives me reason to live. 她給我活下去的理由
11. You light up my life. 你點亮了我的生命
12. You complete me. 有了你, 我的生命才完整
13. He is all I need. 有他就夠了
14. That womanizer hits on every woman he sees. 那花心傢伙見一個愛一個
15. I am in search of romance. 我在尋覓浪漫
16. I am yours. 我是你的
17. I adore you. 我愛慕您
18. I am hopelessly in love with you. 我無可救藥地愛著你
19. I feel as if I am on top of the world when I am with you. 跟你在一起時,我覺得自己到了世界的頂點了
20. Whenever you kiss me, I feel moonstruck. 每次你吻我,我就像被月亮打到一樣
21. You take my breath away and leave me breathless. 你叫我窒息
22. You intoxicate me. 你蠱惑著我
23. You are driving me insane. 你讓我瘋狂
24. Let's go steady. 我們穩定下來吧
25. You are the one who holds the key to my heart. 你掌握開啟我心扉的鑰匙
最後由 bill 於 週六 6月 18, 2005 2:44 am 編輯，總共編輯了 1 次。
A typo: moostruck --> moonstruck
《發暈》Moonstruck: starring Cher, Nicholas Cage
《發暈》Moonstruck: starring Cher, Nicholas Cage
最後由 Wayne 於 週三 6月 22, 2005 1:15 pm 編輯，總共編輯了 1 次。
Knowledge is power -- when shared.
humble: 簡陋的,粗糙的
friction ：衝突,摩擦
clinician：臨床醫生[學者]
pathology：病理學
hostility : 敵意
lousy :很糟地
designate：指出
fragile：脆弱的
marital：夫妻間的
apocalypse：啟示
defensiveness：防禦
stonewall (用辯論等)阻礙議事進行, 拖延
mundane：世俗的,平凡的
fondness : 慈愛
paraphrase :解述
rebut : 反駁
floor : 發言權
incite : 刺激
sooth : 討好
reconvene : 再聚會
discord : 不一致
friction ：衝突,摩擦
clinician：臨床醫生[學者]
pathology：病理學
hostility : 敵意
lousy :很糟地
designate：指出
fragile：脆弱的
marital：夫妻間的
apocalypse：啟示
defensiveness：防禦
stonewall (用辯論等)阻礙議事進行, 拖延
mundane：世俗的,平凡的
fondness : 慈愛
paraphrase :解述
rebut : 反駁
floor : 發言權
incite : 刺激
sooth : 討好
reconvene : 再聚會
discord : 不一致
wayne我們真是同一個年代的人呵...