Is 李蒨蓉 innocent?

Is 李蒨蓉 innocent?

文章Rock » 週三 4月 22, 2015 10:08 pm

Yesterday we talked about the Apache incident. It's very interesting to me that many people think she is guilty, while I just don't get why it is her to blame.

Let me clear one thing first: I am not her fan; I am not defending her because I like her or what.

But she is just a civilian!

If there is a granny who sees a beautiful cherry tree inside a military camp. She wants to take a closer look so she asks the MP standing at the gate for permission. The MP tells her, "Go ahead. No problem.", so she gets in. She takes out a camera; the MP looks at her but doesn't say anything, so she takes a few pictures. Five minutes later, she is arrested for violating the secret of the army base.

If you were the jury, would you deliver a verdict of "guilty"?

Let me say that again: Lee is just a civilian. She'd got the permission from a high-ranking officer. (Please don't tell me that a Lieutenant Colonel is not big enough, if you have served in the military.) The officer was in charge of the whole visit, he made everybody there so happy, allowing them to cosplay and take photos, like they were in a playground. If a civilian has got a permission of a military officer to openly take a photo of anything, be it a cherry tree or a helicopter, she would assume it's not confidential in anyway.

Although many people told me that Lee is guilty, I still think the officer, together with the army, should take 100% responsibility about this incident. The civilian is innocent.
最後由 Rock 於 週四 4月 23, 2015 2:01 pm 編輯,總共編輯了 1 次。
頭像
Rock
President
 
文章: 1719
註冊時間: 週三 10月 31, 2007 9:03 am

Re: Is 李蒨蓉 innocent?

文章Rock » 週三 4月 22, 2015 10:14 pm

李蒨蓉 白目?PO炫耀文前「曾問過勞乃成」
http://udn.com/news/story/1/825432

李蒨蓉在PO出多張登阿帕契炫耀照片前,先經過身兼保防官的勞乃成點頭
頭像
Rock
President
 
文章: 1719
註冊時間: 週三 10月 31, 2007 9:03 am

Re: Is 李蒨蓉 innocent?

文章Rock » 週三 4月 22, 2015 10:25 pm

Besides, please don't be fooled-- Apache is NOT so confidential. If it's really that important, the USA would never have sold it to Taiwan. Just google, and you can easily find many pictures.
圖檔

Ooops, I just did it. Now I leaked a military secret and they will put me on the news. :lol:
頭像
Rock
President
 
文章: 1719
註冊時間: 週三 10月 31, 2007 9:03 am

Re: Is 李蒨蓉 innocent?

文章Wayne » 週三 4月 22, 2015 11:57 pm

No response? Here you are.

There are two flaws. 1. Even though 李蒨蓉 received permission from 勞乃成, the latter should have not done so, because it was against the military law however ridiculous it might seem to be. Therefore, she was still guilty thanks to her ignorance – how come she did not know that as a civilian she was not allowed to do what she did. Similarly, if your superior tells you to do something illegal, you cannot say you've got the green light to do it and claim that you should get away with possible punishment. This is indeed self-evident. 2. Even though the Apache things are no secret, it's a pity that the military law has not been abolished and all the military people should keep it as if it were a secret and not to break the law. 勞乃成 might think it was no big deal to decide on his own that the Apache things were nothing near a secret, but before the stupid law was changed or rescinded, it had be observed to the letter.
Knowledge is power -- when shared.
頭像
Wayne
Adviser on English
 
文章: 1500
註冊時間: 週四 5月 13, 2004 10:53 am
來自: Taipei, Taiwan, Pandemonium

Re: Is 李蒨蓉 innocent?

文章Rock » 週四 4月 23, 2015 8:37 am

Hey, Wayne, thank you for joining the online discussion. It's good to see that you're also interested in this topic.

I agree with you: we should follow our common sense, or we would get into trouble. However, I just think that I might do the same thing if I were her. My common sense fails in this case. Apparently I am as stupid as her. :shock:

A newspaper says that she could be put in prison for 5 years for this Apathe thing. Is it fair? What kind of punishment would she and her family get?
最後由 Rock 於 週四 4月 23, 2015 12:23 pm 編輯,總共編輯了 1 次。
頭像
Rock
President
 
文章: 1719
註冊時間: 週三 10月 31, 2007 9:03 am

Re: Is 李蒨蓉 innocent?

文章Wayne » 週四 4月 23, 2015 10:12 am

How fair is fair? From the angle of the accused, they naturally think they are innocent and deserve no punishment at all. On the other hand, only the judge has the say. If he think it's fair, then it is fair, hopefully. In comparison, if we say it's fair, it may not, and vice versa. Furthermore, what do you expect if a dinosaur presides at the court? Being sentenced to jail for five days to five years, anything is possible. Our heroine may be exempted from doing time but should not get away with minimal punishment, which should be a good lesson for all those lacking in common sense. It's often heard that it is your own responsibility to know the laws, no excuses. Otherwise, what are laws (which are enacted by our sagacious legislators) for?
Knowledge is power -- when shared.
頭像
Wayne
Adviser on English
 
文章: 1500
註冊時間: 週四 5月 13, 2004 10:53 am
來自: Taipei, Taiwan, Pandemonium

Re: Is 李蒨蓉 innocent?

文章Michael-liu » 週五 5月 01, 2015 9:54 am

When this news broke out and most people put the criticism on Lee, I had sympathy for her. I certainly agree that what she did was stupid, naive and ignorant and she should be held legally accountable for it. However, she took so much blame for this scandal just because she is a celebrity.

We all know that people nowadays are obsessed with photo taking, so when you have a chance of taking a photo with an Apache, you probably would not miss it. We all agree that to show off photos or what you got on FB is human nature. That is just what Lee did. People criticized Lee had privilege, but she did not ask for it, she was invited to go there. People said she should have known that military information is condential, but she never served in the army like men did, and just like what Rock said, she even asked for the officer's permission before she posted those Apache photos. People said her 犯後 attitude was bad, but before this news went viral on media, she didn't know what she did was wrong, so it is quite understandable she did not apologize for it when being interviewed by media the first time.

So, I agree that the officer should take the most of the blame , not her. People just feel excited when getting a chance to verbally attack a celebrity. I guess this is what Rock meant by saying Lee is innocent. Not meaning she is innocent in legal sense.

I have to admit Lee is quite attractive and she is kind of my type, but I don't think her beauty clouds my judgement
Michael-liu
Ex-Vice President
 
文章: 510
註冊時間: 週五 4月 24, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Is 李蒨蓉 innocent?

文章Rock » 週六 5月 02, 2015 12:06 am

Sorry, but I do believe she is innocent in law. Has she been prosecuted? As I know, not yet, maybe never will be.
Is she saved because she's got some powerful connection? I don't think so. They have already seriously punished several generals in this case. It's not likely that she and her family can get away easily, unless-- they are really legally innocent.
頭像
Rock
President
 
文章: 1719
註冊時間: 週三 10月 31, 2007 9:03 am

Re: Is 李蒨蓉 innocent?

文章Iris Wu » 週六 5月 02, 2015 7:36 am

(For this particular incident, we may have different opinions, hope no hard feelings... :) )

To be honest, the only thing I can “appreciate” this lady is her ignorance helps reveal some of underlying issues in the military system.
But sympathy for her? Oh, no, not even an ounce of it! If I had any sympathy, I would put it on the pilot, the old general and their families. I feel sorry for their hard-earned career and family reputation ruined by the incident. Is the lady innocent? Wayne has stated the legal side arguments, I kind of agree with that. Non-legal side, I think she should be “guilty” and she should commit a lot of social services to pay back the society for how much energy wasted in defending for her.
--> Right, personal opinion only...

(I don't know her before the incident, and I cannot recognize her even she shows up again on TV.)
Iris Wu
Ex-Vice President
 
文章: 478
註冊時間: 週二 5月 20, 2014 4:33 pm

Re: Is 李蒨蓉 innocent?

文章Rock » 週六 5月 02, 2015 12:38 pm

Of course we are exchanging our opinions with no hard feelings, like we always do. And we do it only for fun. (It's not likely that we can change the world or anything, right?):D :lol: :D

I do find one thing interesting: people's ideas can be so different in this seemingly plain and simple case, and that is why I want to continue this thread. It doesn't matter if we can reach a conclusion; the discussion part is valuable itself.

Ms. Lee used to be cute when she was a VJ on MTV channel, but not anymore. What a pity! I guess many people would simply frown at her when hearing the term "貴婦團" (how do you say that in English?). To be honest, I am also against the rich ladies' party and I guess her attitude on the TV news is annoying. But whether I like her or not has nothing to do with her legal responsibilities. If the law says she is guilty, then she is.

As for the non-legal part, I personally think the media is more responsible than the stupid woman. Actually, she didn't ask for all the attention; it's the media which put this case under the spotlight everywhere! If it's a waste, then it's the media to blame. However, on the second thought, a lot of Taiwanese also enjoyed the show. Maybe the media was just doing it's job to meet the market demand? :roll:
頭像
Rock
President
 
文章: 1719
註冊時間: 週三 10月 31, 2007 9:03 am

Re: Is 李蒨蓉 innocent?

文章Iris Wu » 週六 5月 02, 2015 3:57 pm

Just a quick reply, since I am still on the road.
Yes, I totally agree the media is a big problem of this society, and media is to please the audience. So what is the source of problem? I wonder if anything the ordinary people like you and me can do to help change it?
Iris Wu
Ex-Vice President
 
文章: 478
註冊時間: 週二 5月 20, 2014 4:33 pm


回到 趣聞新知 News

誰在線上

正在瀏覽這個版面的使用者:沒有註冊會員 和 1 位訪客