常犯的英語錯誤「語用」

[Michael-liu]

今天企業英語教室要談的「語用錯誤」造成的誤解。台灣英語教育，一直到近幾年才開始重視「語用」。講得白一點，語用就是語言的用法，在哪一些情境裡應該說哪些話，要怎麼說。

大部份外籍人士對於老中的發音不準或詞彙不當，接受度很高，也會盡力去瞭解，但不符合禮儀錯誤語用，卻會讓他們受不了。也就是詞用錯了或文法錯了，可以容忍和原諒；詞沒有用錯、文法沒有錯，但語用規則(Speech Rules)錯了，對方可能會覺得你不禮貌，缺乏教養。以下為大家歸納常見的語用錯誤：

1. 你是做什麼工作（做哪一行）？
（Ｘ）What's your job?
（Ｏ) Are you working at the moment?
What is your job? 美國人不會這麼問，英國人也會覺得這樣問失禮，這問話似乎是在警察詢問人時用的。要問人的職業，可以用What do you do?是詢問對方職業。失業潮嚴重，要更禮貌還可以問：目前你是在上班嗎？Are you working at this moment?你從事哪個行業呢？What line of work are you in?

2. 用英語怎麼說？
（Ｘ）How to say?
（O）How do you say this in English?
How to say是最為氾濫成災的中式英語。類似的錯有How to spell the word?？How to pronounce this word? 而應該說How do you spell that word? How do you pronounce this word?

3. 我每天都到公司去
（Ｘ）I go to my company every day.
（Ｏ）I go to my office every day.
公司在英語中可用company、corporation、firm等詞語。這些詞語都是用來表示作為公司的一個法人組織。在表達去公司上班時用go to the office，也可以用go to work.

4. 他是我的部屬
（Ｘ）He's my junior.
（Ｏ）He works under (for) me.
下屬不用junior。.Junior是年輕人，比自己晚進公司、晚入學的人都可以用junior，有點接近中文的後進。Junior用於工作中時與職位高低無關，只表示某人比某人晚進公司幾年，也可表達為I started working here three years before he did.[我比他來這公司3年]。而He works under (for)me.有他是我的下屬的意思。

5. 辦公室很寬敞。
（Ｘ）The new office is very wide.
（Ｏ）The new office is very spacious.
wide意為寬闊的，指橫向幅度。例如：a wide river/road 一條寬闊的河流／道路。表示房間的空間很大，不可以用wide,而用spacious或large。 就像指辦公空間擁擠，用small而不用narrow。wide指橫向寬度，spacious指空間寬闊。

6. 這是我哥哥
（Ｘ）This is my elder brother.
（Ｏ）This is my older sister.
指年長的人，一般用older比用elder要多，elder是老式用法，不流行了。但是，指兩者之間年長的，經常使用the elder。例如：Jane is the elder of the two. 兩人當中珍的年紀較大。

7. 你覺得怎麼樣
（Ｘ）How do you think?
（Ｏ）What do you think?
徵求意見，不能用how。徵求對方意見時，儘管中文說：你覺得怎如何？但是英語中，不能用how，要用what.

[Sherry Liao]

2. 用英語怎麼說？
（Ｘ）How to say?
（O）How do you say this in English?
How to say是最為氾濫成災的中式英語。類似的錯有How to spell the word?？How to pronounce this word? 而應該說How do you spell that word? How do you pronounce this word?

Dear Michael,

Thank you for the info. However, this one seems a bit confusing to me. I never knew "How to say..." is Chinese-style English. As I know it is a quite common usage, even in some (as I know) articles made by native speakers. For example, there is a blog in BBC website which shows readers how to pronounce some specific words/names in the news. Like these:

How to Say: Van Gogh
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/magazinemoni ... gogh.shtml
How to Say: Economics
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/magazinemoni ... mics.shtml

Can anyone explain further about this to me?

[Michael-liu]

Dear Sherry

The two examples you provided happened to be asking "pronunciation" , so in that case, it is fine to use "how to say"

As I said before, language is not like a subject of science, so often times it does not have a standard answer.

For this "how to say" question, native speakers will not say it in that way, 就是如此而已...to verify it is true or not, what we should do is to ask native speakers. You still can try to google it to see if you can find other examples.

Michael

[Michael-liu]

Dear Sherry

我想我用中文解釋一下比較清楚, 就像妳所舉的例子, 當natives 用"how to say...."時, 是在問某個字的發音, 但當我們老中問"how to say ....in English? "時, 我們並不是要問這個字的發音, 但在natives 的認知, 他會誤以為妳在問發音, so...當natives 要問某個字怎麼說時, 他們會說" How do you say.....in English? "

Michael

[Luis Ko]

大部份外籍人士對於老中的發音不準或詞彙不當，接受度很高，也會盡力去瞭解，但不符合禮儀錯誤語用，卻會讓他們受不了。也就是詞用錯了或文法錯了，可以容忍和原諒；詞沒有用錯、文法沒有錯，但語用規則(Speech Rules)錯了，對方可能會覺得你不禮貌，缺乏教養。以下為大家歸納常見的語用錯誤

as to the aforementioned saying, i agree to a point but, since we are English Learners so that i think it might not be that big of a deal to have the mentioned problem.

the main problem might be that to directly translate a Chinese word into an English word, that's to say relying on Chinese to English dictionaries too much, such as "The new office is very wide" thing. i think that's a critical problem.

on the contrary to the saying, pronunciation is also very important. i read an article the other day which may have said it a bit, if not all. as follows,



Article resource from:
http://takeontaiwan.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... glish.html

Monday, October 29, 2007


Taiwanglish


“I wearie whi shoeser.”
Apple is a 21-year-old student whose part-time job is to corrupt my students with this brand of Taiwanglish. One of the main rules of this language is that you should either, 1. miss off the final sound, or 2. add an extra syllable. Apple doesn’t have any teaching qualifications and isn’t even studying English at University. That doesn’t matter to the kindergarten though, because she can sing and dance to a whole range of English songs.

Every year Taiwanese people spend billions of dollars on English education. I wonder whether they getting their money’s worth. Last week, in the hopes of changing my job, I visited a buxiban in Chiayi. The interview went well so I asked to watch a class. As I entered the classroom the kids were learning rote from Book 3 of the excellent series, “Let’s Go Speak Bad English”. That soon changed when I sat down though. I think the teacher wanted, as a special treat for me, to showcase her students’ English,
“Jerry, what’s your name?”
“Huh, gan ma? wo tin bu dong.”
I realize Jerry may have been nervous, apparently I was the first foreigner to enter that classroom, but he was on Book 3. His parents must have been paying for English classes for at least a year, and he can’t handle, “What’s your name?”

Something is terribly wrong here, and it’s not just bad teaching. There are so many students, especially adult students, who have these fixed ideas about how to improve their English. Yes, native speakers use idioms but that doesn’t mean that someone studying with a pre-intermediate textbook should. I absolutely hate it when, after getting a group discussion going, somebody brings it to an abrupt end with their phrase of the day, “Ahem, I am like the fish who is out of the water.” Not only that, but then they give you this look, a mixture of an inquiry, “did I get it right?” and pride, “who cares, I just used an idiom. I am the cat who has the cream”

There are just too many English learning aids that are worse than useless; too many bad teachers (both Chinese and foreign), too many who, for one reason or another, don’t care about their students’ English; too many students who won’t listen because their Taiwanese teacher in school taught them something different.

There is also too much of an absurdly careless attitude from the government. Take, for example, public signs and notices. They spend millions every year putting up these signs in English, and yet don’t bother to have someone check the grammar and spelling. If you’re going to spend all that money, hire someone, someone good, pay them a lot of money and have them check the wording and the spelling.

Until these attitudes to English change, too many Taiwanese people will continue to wearie why shoeser.





i will try my best to pronunce every word clearly later

[Rock]

Dear Michael and Sherry
This is an old debate, but I think Sherry has got you. Please google "how to say thank you in french" to see how many websites you can find.
However, I did ask two foreigners and they all said that "How do you say blablabla in English?" is the right way to ask the question.

I guess it should be like this:
1. How do you say "thank you" in Chinese? (O)
2. I'm telling you how to say "thank you" in Chinese. (O)
3. How to say "thank you" in Chinese? (X)

It's ok to use "How to say thank you in Chinese" as a topic, but it's not a question. It's more like someone saying "I'm here to show you how to say thank you in Chinese."

It's only a guess, though. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Rock]

Dear Luis,

I can't agree with you more. Last time I saw a pretty young school girl busy studying a 參考書 of Grammar. That book was really a piece of shit. It's a shame that someone still teach kids to learn English in this way.

[Michael-liu]

It's ok to use "How to say thank you in Chinese" as a topic, but it's not a question. It's more like someone saying "I'm here to show you how to say thank you in Chinese."

Yes, Rock, I can't agree with you more. Very insightful explanation!! I believe it is OK to use it in a title, but not in a question of conversation

Michael

[Wayne]

今天企業英語教室要談的「語用錯誤」造成的誤解。台灣英語教育，一直到近幾年才開始重視「語用」。講得白一點，語用就是語言的用法，在哪一些情境裡應該說哪些話，要怎麼說。

大部份外籍人士對於老中的發音不準或詞彙不當，接受度很高，也會盡力去瞭解，但不符合禮儀錯誤語用，卻會讓他們受不了。也就是詞用錯了或文法錯了，可以容忍和原諒；詞沒有用錯、文法沒有錯，但語用規則(Speech Rules)錯了，對方可能會覺得你不禮貌，缺乏教養。以下為大家歸納常見的語用錯誤：

1. 你是做什麼工作（做哪一行）？
（Ｘ）What's your job?
（Ｏ) Are you working at the moment?
What is your job? 美國人不會這麼問，英國人也會覺得這樣問失禮，這問話似乎是在警察詢問人時用的。要問人的職業，可以用What do you do?是詢問對方職業。失業潮嚴重，要更禮貌還可以問：目前你是在上班嗎？Are you working at this moment?你從事哪個行業呢？What line of work are you in?

2. 用英語怎麼說？
（Ｘ）How to say?
（O）How do you say this in English?
How to say是最為氾濫成災的中式英語。類似的錯有How to spell the word?？How to pronounce this word? 而應該說How do you spell that word? How do you pronounce this word?

3. 我每天都到公司去
（Ｘ）I go to my company every day.
（Ｏ）I go to my office every day.
公司在英語中可用company、corporation、firm等詞語。這些詞語都是用來表示作為公司的一個法人組織。在表達去公司上班時用go to the office，也可以用go to work.

4. 他是我的部屬
（Ｘ）He's my junior.
（Ｏ）He works under (for) me.
下屬不用junior。.Junior是年輕人，比自己晚進公司、晚入學的人都可以用junior，有點接近中文的後進。Junior用於工作中時與職位高低無關，只表示某人比某人晚進公司幾年，也可表達為I started working here three years before he did.[我比他來這公司3年]。而He works under (for)me.有他是我的下屬的意思。

5. 辦公室很寬敞。
（Ｘ）The new office is very wide.
（Ｏ）The new office is very spacious.
wide意為寬闊的，指橫向幅度。例如：a wide river/road 一條寬闊的河流／道路。表示房間的空間很大，不可以用wide,而用spacious或large。 就像指辦公空間擁擠，用small而不用narrow。wide指橫向寬度，spacious指空間寬闊。

6. 這是我哥哥
（Ｘ）This is my elder brother.
（Ｏ）This is my older sister.
指年長的人，一般用older比用elder要多，elder是老式用法，不流行了。但是，指兩者之間年長的，經常使用the elder。例如：Jane is the elder of the two. 兩人當中珍的年紀較大。

7. 你覺得怎麼樣
（Ｘ）How do you think?
（Ｏ）What do you think?
徵求意見，不能用how。徵求對方意見時，儘管中文說：你覺得怎如何？但是英語中，不能用how，要用what.

It is true that "語用規則(Speech Rules)錯了，對方可能會覺得你不禮貌，缺乏教養。" Then, "以下為大家歸納常見的語用錯誤". However, among the seven given examples, I think only the first one has something to do with the so-called speech rules. Therefore, lo an behold, readers should not get confused by this article.

I have been a subscriber to Core & Corner (企業英語教室) ever since they launch the web site. I enjoy the lessons very much; in fact, there are many typical examples of ChInese English. Nevertheless, I do not believe them 100% .

[Sherry Liao]

However, I did ask two foreigners and they all said that "How do you say blablabla in English?" is the right way to ask the question.

I guess it should be like this:
1. How do you say "thank you" in Chinese? (O)
2. I'm telling you how to say "thank you" in Chinese. (O)
3. How to say "thank you" in Chinese? (X)

Dear Rock,

I agree. I think I will not use "How to say thank you in Chinese?" as a question but it is okay for me to say "Can you tell me how to say thank you in Chinese?"

BTW, I read a grammar unit the other day and it mentions the following:

名詞子句的省略寫法:
當名詞子句裡的主詞和主要子句的主詞或受詞一樣, 其中含 "疑問詞+主詞+should或can/could+原形動詞"時, 就可把主詞和助動詞省略, 變成"疑問詞+to V"的縮略寫法.

Ex.: Can you tell me how I can get to the train station?
= Can you tell me how to get to the train station?
Ex.: Please let me know when we can move in.
= Please let me know when to move in.

I think the rule applies here:
Can you tell me how I can say thank you in Chinese?
= Can you tell me how to say thank you in Chinese?

So I think it is a correct sentence, grammatically at least.

[Sherry Liao]

Dear Luis,

I can't agree with you more. Last time I saw a pretty young school girl busy studying a 參考書 of Grammar. That book was really a piece of shit. It's a shame that someone still teach kids to learn English in this way.

I don't know what piece of shit you were mentioned, but I think it is quite important to learn grammar, especially when we are managing to perfect our writing.

[Rock]

Dear dear Sherry,
I happen to see this thread again and I really want to share with you that piece of "shit". In this 參考書 there's something like this:

Let me help you!

說明: let 是動詞, [允許, 讓], 句型為(主詞+let+受詞+原形動詞+...)

The explanation is much more difficult than the original sentence. I'd say that it's even more difficult than math.

By the way, do you think that 參考書can be translated as "reference books"? Or maybe "study guide" is better?

[Julian]

Dear dear Sherry,
I happen to see this thread again and I really want to share with you that piece of "shit". In this 參考書 there's something like this:

Let me help you!

說明: let 是動詞, [允許, 讓], 句型為(主詞+let+受詞+原形動詞+...)

The explanation is much more difficult than the original sentence. I'd say that it's even more difficult than math.

By the way, do you think that 參考書can be translated as "reference books"? Or maybe "study guide" is better?

Well, to learn grammer or not are different approaches to English. In my humble opinion, if you are in a good enviroment and have alot of chance to speak with natives then maybe you can skip the guide books. I don't really think native speakers learn how to talk through reading.

A guide book is more like a tool to me, if the tool is not very handy then I might simply put it on the rack. How it works depends on how you manage to use it.