"蟻后最後5年下的蛋是前5年的兩倍"這句怎麼說?

Re: "蟻后最後5年下的蛋是前5年的兩倍"這句怎麼說?

文章Rock » 週二 3月 11, 2014 5:09 pm

Kooper 寫:Another try:

The number of eggs an ant queen lays doubles in its last five years of life.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Rock, 前5年 seems redundant to me... I guess you just want the idea of 產量倍增 right? Besides we usually express 產量 in the way of xxx(數字) eggs per day, week, month, or year.
It seems weird to compare this five years to that five years. :mrgreen:


Hi, Kooper, long time no see,

No, it's not redundant. I was trying to make a difficult math question for my 13-year-old nephew. To give him a hard time, I wrote it in English. To confuse him, I confused myself, too. :mrgreen:
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Re: "蟻后最後5年下的蛋是前5年的兩倍"這句怎麼說?

文章Rock » 週三 3月 12, 2014 12:11 pm

Kooper 寫:Some discussions on TWICE MORE.

http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic13427.html



Hey, Kooper, in the link you provided, they say the following sentences are different.

My book is twice as expensive as your book.

My book is twice more expensive than your book.


The first one means, for example, my book is $20, and yours is $10.
The second means my book is $30, and your is $10. (twice more ... than...)

It did seem perfectly fine to me, until I found this:
http://rusnewsjournal.com/2/60243/

The Yaroslavl officials twice richer than doctors and workers

Those from them who concerns federal enforcement authorities in our region, receive on the average 14196 roubles. The monthly average salary of employees of administration almost is twice more - 27363 roubles.

Since "twice more expensive" means "three folds of the money", then why does "twice richer" means "two folds of the money"?

How do you think of this Chinese sentence "你比我有錢兩倍"? Does it mean you have three times my money or twice my money? I asked Luis and Michael, their answers made me rethink my Chinese ability. Shoot.
最後由 Rock 於 週三 3月 12, 2014 4:11 pm 編輯,總共編輯了 2 次。
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Re: "蟻后最後5年下的蛋是前5年的兩倍"這句怎麼說?

文章Tina Sun » 週三 3月 12, 2014 1:55 pm

i am confused toooooooooooooooooooo...
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Re: "蟻后最後5年下的蛋是前5年的兩倍"這句怎麼說?

文章Rock » 週三 3月 12, 2014 4:17 pm

Haha, just for fun. Nothing serious.
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Re: "蟻后最後5年下的蛋是前5年的兩倍"這句怎麼說?

文章Luis Ko » 週三 3月 12, 2014 9:55 pm

Rock 寫:
Kooper 寫:Some discussions on TWICE MORE.

http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic13427.html



Hey, Kooper, in the link you provided, they say the following sentences are different.

My book is twice as expensive as your book.

My book is twice more expensive than your book.


The first one means, for example, my book is $20, and yours is $10.
The second means my book is $30, and your is $10. (twice more ... than...)

It did seem perfectly fine to me, until I found this:
http://rusnewsjournal.com/2/60243/

The Yaroslavl officials twice richer than doctors and workers

Those from them who concerns federal enforcement authorities in our region, receive on the average 14196 roubles. The monthly average salary of employees of administration almost is twice more - 27363 roubles.

Since "twice more expensive" means "three folds of the money", then why does "twice richer" means "two folds of the money"?

How do you think of this Chinese sentence "你比我有錢兩倍"? Does it mean you have three times my money or twice my money? I asked Luis and Michael, their answers made me rethink my Chinese ability. Shoot.




i guess the author/ editor is either none native english speaker or, they simply have no idea what they say is totally different from what they are trying to express. it's just like we say that in chinese, 你比我有錢兩倍, 你的錢多我兩倍, 你的錢是我的兩倍 etc. however, the word "than", more than, might also play a critical part in this kind of sentence, so the sentence Rock mentioned might be totally correct. it's confusing really, even those native english speakers would be confused most of the time i guess.. XD

here i googled an academic material titled "COMMON ERRORS IN FORMING ARITHMETIC COMPARISONS", in which i find an answer/ explaination of the question on 6th point, page 2. this one should be reliable i would say. if you are interested, you can read it all of course haa :lol:

anyway, no matter what language we use, words could be confusing la, sometimes lo :mrgreen:
i might be a cynic and, a sceptic as well but, i'm definitely not a bad person!!
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Re: "蟻后最後5年下的蛋是前5年的兩倍"這句怎麼說?

文章Kooper » 週四 3月 13, 2014 1:41 pm

Rock 寫:
Kooper 寫:Some discussions on TWICE MORE.

http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic13427.html



Hey, Kooper, in the link you provided, they say the following sentences are different.

My book is twice as expensive as your book.

My book is twice more expensive than your book.


The first one means, for example, my book is $20, and yours is $10.
The second means my book is $30, and your is $10. (twice more ... than...)

It did seem perfectly fine to me, until I found this:
http://rusnewsjournal.com/2/60243/

The Yaroslavl officials twice richer than doctors and workers

Those from them who concerns federal enforcement authorities in our region, receive on the average 14196 roubles. The monthly average salary of employees of administration almost is twice more - 27363 roubles.

Since "twice more expensive" means "three folds of the money", then why does "twice richer" means "two folds of the money"?

How do you think of this Chinese sentence "你比我有錢兩倍"? Does it mean you have three times my money or twice my money? I asked Luis and Michael, their answers made me rethink my Chinese ability. Shoot.

Dear Rock,

I think it is not an English question so much as a math one.

I personally would avoid using expressions like "twice more expensive than" in both English and Chinese. The speaker could mean two different numbers and the listener could interpret it two different ways. It all depends on how cautious or serious the speaker and the other side are (or how good they are at math?) when it comes to comparison of numbers.

It is always less confusing to say "Rock的薪水是Kooper的兩倍" than "Rock的薪水比Kooper高兩倍."
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Re: "蟻后最後5年下的蛋是前5年的兩倍"這句怎麼說?

文章Rock » 週四 3月 13, 2014 2:29 pm

Hey, I didn't know you guys are so persistent.

This thread was already too long when I posted my last messy confusing idea, but you all showed the spirit. Good for us. Maybe next time we can correct some English native speaker's English (or math)?

And my money is only half as much as Kooper's, of course.
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Re: "蟻后最後5年下的蛋是前5年的兩倍"這句怎麼說?

文章Tina Sun » 週四 3月 13, 2014 2:31 pm

It should be written like this: Rock的薪水比Kooper"的"高兩倍 (要多個"的"....哈哈 比較的對象才對~~)

原來我才知道Rock賺很大啊~~ Soga. :lol:

p.s. Luis gets his point, too.
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Re: "蟻后最後5年下的蛋是前5年的兩倍"這句怎麼說?

文章Rock » 週四 3月 13, 2014 2:37 pm

Because Luis and Michael are just too good in math and Chinese. I discussed this Chinese sentence "你有10元,我的錢比你多兩倍,我有多少錢?" with my fellow teacher co-workers. I guess they all think they are well-educated, and qualified as native Chinese speakers, too. So, guess what their answers are?

A. 20
B. 30

Which one gets more votes?
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Re: "蟻后最後5年下的蛋是前5年的兩倍"這句怎麼說?

文章stephen185 » 週五 3月 14, 2014 12:00 pm

Interesting topic.
But I am now confused as well...
A: "你碗裡的份量多我一倍",
B: "你碗裡的份量是我的一倍"
C: "你碗裡的份量是我的兩倍"
Do A, B, and C say the same thing in Chinese?
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Re: "蟻后最後5年下的蛋是前5年的兩倍"這句怎麼說?

文章Wayne » 週五 3月 14, 2014 1:12 pm

stephen185 寫:Interesting topic.
But I am now confused as well...
A: "你碗裡的份量多我一倍",
B: "你碗裡的份量是我的一倍"
C: "你碗裡的份量是我的兩倍"
Do A, B, and C say the same thing in Chinese?


Some people say B to mean C. Since this is confusing, it does make very poor sense. How come 一倍 and 兩倍 have the same meaning? Therefore, it is supposed to be put the way as A. These people simply drop the word 多. Lazy as they are, it has created a "Confucious" confusion.
Knowledge is power -- when shared.
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Re: "蟻后最後5年下的蛋是前5年的兩倍"這句怎麼說?

文章Rock » 週五 3月 14, 2014 4:08 pm

Actually, one of my co-workers also mentioned something like "你碗裡的份量是我的一倍", and because he is a PE teacher, we assumed that his grades must have been not so good when he was young at school. :lol: This sentence sounds poorer comparing with others.

However, as Wayne mentioned, it is possible that the user has omitted the word "多" in this sentence. Then I must say that English speakers also do the same thing sometimes.

A. You are taller than I.
B. You are taller than I am.
C. You are taller than me.

Which one is better?

Another Chinese sentence, "你的頭髮比我長"
As a native Chinese speaker, what do you think of this sentence? Is it OK or not?
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Re: "蟻后最後5年下的蛋是前5年的兩倍"這句怎麼說?

文章Wayne » 週五 3月 14, 2014 9:20 pm

Rock 寫:Actually, one of my co-workers also mentioned something like "你碗裡的份量是我的一倍", and because he is a PE teacher, we assumed that his grades must have been not so good when he was young at school. :lol: This sentence sounds poorer comparing with others.

However, as Wayne mentioned, it is possible that the user has omitted the word "多" in this sentence. Then I must say that English speakers also do the same thing sometimes.

A. You are taller than I.
B. You are taller than I am.
C. You are taller than me.

Which one is better?

Another Chinese sentence, "你的頭髮比我長"
As a native Chinese speaker, what do you think of this sentence? Is it OK or not?


All are correct or at least acceptable. However,
A is a shorter form of B where "am" is omitted,
B is, relatively, a full setence but is not widely used, and
C is incorrect grammarwise but it is generally accepted in colloquil English.

"你的頭髮比我長": The full sentence is "你的頭髮比我(的頭髮)長" The shorter form obviously has faulty wording (有語病) but is understandable.
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