ISG 0426 Graffiti, Art?

[Just JJ]

Guys: What do words in red mean? Can anyone help us find out? And why do Graffiti have any thing to do with train?


BTW, I really think the clip is too long.

The following quotes are from the transcript said by Doer:

"Doer: The first time I went to do graffiti was on a train to Waverton. "
"Doer: At certain times, yes. I mean when we were doing trains, run-ups and stuff like that, "

According to my two years life in Austrlalia, this is my understanding:
I see a great deal of graffiti on the side of buildings facing the railway
along the way from the station I hop on a train to the main station in city.

It can mean two things: One is that those building is located away from city, and police force
usually can't reach there on the daily basis. Next, The doers spraying their painting on those
walls facing the railway can make their "work" highly exposed in public (commuters).

That's my observation....

Chiron, It's a long clip. That why we only discuss the section: (03:04 – 20:37)
I think all the questions that Chiron has brought can be our part of our discussion...

[Kooper]

My summary:

The motives behind graffiti vary from person to person. Some teenagers just do it for fun; others, through graffiti, try to prove their existence, seek a sense of belonging, or win acceptance or respect from others , and still others are influenced by friends or inspired by existing graffiti and decide to follow suit. Street gangs might tag to mark their territories. Political radicals utilize it to disseminate their beliefs. Suppressed people use it as a way to cry out and protest. Serious artists create graffiti in an attempt to improve city’s look and make it more vibrant.

[IVY]

In order to prohibit Graffiti, different areas give various kinds of penalty.
However, graffiti’s still widespread and make some people angry for scrubbing the wall and destroying the property.
For people who love doing graffiti think it is a kind of art not only to express their thinking and style, but also beautify the surrounding used to be dead.
Some even use tag as a signature to make reputation or mark their territory.
The observer says the phenomenon of graffiti has its own historical background for unprivileged group to vent their rage

xxxxxxxxx
Dear JJ

Thanks for your greeting
I am also the one who can’t meet the deadline,
just listened the first tem minutes
I will try to finish it tomorrow

cheers
ivy

[Just JJ]

The observer says the phenomenon of graffiti has its own historical background for unprivileged group to vent their rage
I am also the one who can’t meet the deadline,
just listened the first tem minutes
I will try to finish it tomorrow
cheers
ivy

Ivy, setting a timeframe can help us to have more time correct our grammar errors, and learn from each other.

You said:
"graffiti has its own historical background for unprivileged group to vent their rage"

Do you mean "underprivileged"??

[Kooper]

My summary:

Mainly this section gave us more background and understanding of the graffiti doers, the purposes, and different struggles hidden behind it. There are different groups of people with different characters and purposes doing graffiti. Some groups is doing for territory claiming, some for having fun regardless of the building and wall owners’ feeling, and some for making a depressing wall come to life.

The fear, however, will come along, due to some serious crimes involved. Graffiti are not crime itself. They real fear is that doers who are actually gangs. Therefore, it will bring on higher chance to connect to crime if any naïve people want to do the graffiti for the reason of taking time to get their hand on it. Occasionally, which graffiti will go on the top might also lead to disputes, which is also one source of crimes

As for what they are painting, some of them are drippy things, some are commenting politics, some of them are micmicing late 1970’s New York style.
As for it’s form, Graffiti are not necessarily done by spray can. It can come in like bill posters

Hi JJ,

1. There are different groups of people with different characters and purposes of doing graffiti.

2."Some groups is doing for territory claiming, some for having fun regardless of the building and wall owners’ feeling, and some for making a depressing wall come to life." => It is a little strange to use SOME three times to refer to three different groups of people. I would recommend the structure - Some...., others...., and still others.....

[Just JJ]

My summary:

Mainly this section gave us more background and understanding of the graffiti doers, the purposes, and different struggles hidden behind it. There are different groups of people with different characters and purposes doing graffiti. Some groups is doing for territory claiming, some for having fun regardless of the building and wall owners’ feeling, and some for making a depressing wall come to life.

Hi JJ,
1. There are different groups of people with different characters and purposes of doing graffiti.

2."Some groups is doing for territory claiming, some for having fun regardless of the building and wall owners’ feeling, and some for making a depressing wall come to life." => It is a little strange to use SOME three times to refer to three different groups of people. I would recommend the structure - Some...., others...., and still others.....

大家討論一下吧，
第一個句子：我懂Kooper 的意思： "doing graffiti" 的 (of) "purpose" (塗鴉的目的)，
我想我的原意是：塗鴉的人有不同特徵與目的：There are different groups of people doing grafitti with different characters and purposes.
(也就是我一開始寫的時候就把 "doing graffiti" 放在了會讓人誤會的位置。)

第二個句子：
我 "認為" Kooper 的建議是："在一大群人裡頭，可以明確分成三族群，現在三個都拿來說明。"
，我當初原意有點："在一大群人裡頭，可以分成超過三個以上的族群，但是我只拿其中的三個族群來說明"
你們看一下，下面這個歌詞：
Some say love:
Some say love, it is a river
that drowns the tender reed.
Some say love, it is a razor
that leaves your soul to bleed.

Some say love, it is a hunger,
an endless aching need.
I say love, it is a flower,
and you it's only seed.

不曉的我說明的夠不夠清楚，大家討論一下。

[Just JJ]

Discussion for tomorrow:

01: any comment about the section that we have been listening.??

02: Can you think of any other example similar to graffiti that a person thought he/she is doing
something good but it is actually harming others??

03: Discuss those questions that Chiron brought up.

See you tomorrow...

[Kooper]

In order to prohibit Graffiti, different areas give various kinds of penalty.
However, graffiti’s still widespread and make some people angry for scrubbing the wall and destroying the property.
For people who love doing graffiti think it is a kind of art not only to express their thinking and style, but also beautify the surrounding used to be dead.
Some even use tag as a signature to make reputation or mark their territory.
The observer says the phenomenon of graffiti has its own historical background for unprivileged group to vent their rage

Hi Ivy,
"Impose various kinds of penalty" might be a better collocation, I think.

For people who love doing graffiti think it is a kind of art not only to express their thinking and style, but also beautify the surrounding used to be dead. =>
1. I think there is a grammar error here. You can change it into either of the two sentence structures listed below.
a) For people who love doing graffiti, they think ....
b) People who love doing graffiti think ....
2. When "surrounding" is used as a noun, it is in plural form.
3. There should be "that" or "which" between "surrounding" and "used to be dead"

[Kooper]

My vocaburlaries:

1. civil wrong 民事
Act, or omission to act, that violates a legal duty; tort. It gives the victim of the wrong the right to bring a civil action for a remedy.
http://www.answers.com/topic/civil-wrong-1
2. sit-in 靜坐抗議
The students' sit-in lasted three days.
學生們的靜坐抗議延續了三天。
3. industrial dispute
An industrial dispute may be defined as a conflict or difference of opinion between management and workers on the terms of employment.
http://industrialrelations.naukrihub.co ... putes.html
4. bill poster
someone who pastes up bills or placards on walls or billboards
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bill+poster

Hi Chiron,
Where did you get those words? I failed to find them in the transcript.

[Kooper]

Vocabularis and expressions:
1.Get one’s hand on something:
From Dictionary.com:
get/lay (one's) hands on To get possessioon of; acquire or obtain.
Ex: Get Your Hands on Home Safety
it’s an article telling you some tips to make your home safer. Therefore, we can see “get one’s hand on something” also can be used to describe you are learning something new.
Here is more:
Ex: How do you get your hands on the hottest toy of the year
This one means possess.

Hi JJ,
Which part in the trancript did you find the expression?

[Sherry Liao]

My summary and comment (The words from wordbank are highlighted in blue):

Graffiti is the name of "works" made by marking, writing or drawing (or to be specific, by scrawling, scratching, scribbling, chalking, spray painting, or even stenciling) on public or private property, like a wall or door of a real estate or a train, to draw attention of the public, comment events or just have fun . The most controversial part is, in most cases, the unfetterred writers do not obtain permission from property owners. In that case, it may anger a lot of people and amounts to a crime.

The podcast interviewed quite a few graffiti-related people, including the graffiti writers, to view graffiti from the perspective of the graffiti makers. For some authors, doing graffiti is a way to get respect and attention. Others assert that it is art; by doing so, it makes the city look more interesting or exuberant, and even inspire people to push against the oppressive and controlling frame of society.

Graffiti has been existed for thousands of year and is widespread all over the world. It varies from simply scribbling to deliberate works. While some are badly-written or even misspelt, some artistic graffiti writers make skilled graffiti works and may gain reputation or respect in the communities.

Stunning graffiti works aside, in my opinion, graffiti can only be considered a form of art provided that it is made legally. In no case should any graffiti be glamorized as a art of work if the creation is made from infringing on others' property-rights.

[Sherry Liao]

drab: without interest or colour, dull and boring
Ex.: I feel so drab in this grey uniform.
Ex.: She walked through the city centre with its drab, grey buildings and felt depressed.

connotation: an idea suggested by a word in addition to its main meaning
Ex.: The word 'professional' has connotations of skill and excellence.

up against sth: facing problems or opposition
Ex.: Teachers are up against some major problems these days.
Ex.: She’s really up against it (= in a difficult situation).

[Kooper]

Words I picked:

have a soft spot for sth/sb: to feel a lot of affection for sb/sth, often without knowing why
Ex: Margaret can't see a stray cat without taking it home. She has a real soft spot for them.

bust [c]: a situation in which the police go into a place (an unexpected visit) in order to catch people doing sth illegal
Ex: In their last drug bust police entered a warehouse where cocaine dealers were meeting.

sb's take (on sth): someone's opinion about a situation or idea
Ex: What's your take on this issue?

[Sherry Liao]

More graffiti info:
Graffiti Background
http://www.huntfor.com/arthistory/C20th/graffiti.htm


Graffiti - Art or Crime?
http://www.worldjustice.org/taj/2004/graffiti.html


By the way, welcome on board, Ivy.
We got another female now. Sherry, you are not alone anymore

I still don't understand the difference between tagging and graffiti. JJ, could you show some pictures of them?

This is the explaination from the transcript:
A tag is sort of like a signature. It's short and stylised and can be quickly scrawled, scratched or sprayed on anything from a wall or door to a street sign.

I think a tag is a type of graffiti, it is made not as deliberate as other types of graffiti. Also, I notice that in the podcast, the reporter used the word "graffiti" more frequently than used "tag", while the graffiti writers, young people in particular, prefer using the word "tag".

The following is quoted from the transcript:
"The most prevalent marks in this old warehouse are tags. As we heard earlier, they're a bit like a signature, but they don't reveal as much. They conceal more than they reveal. "

[Sherry Liao]

For my money, neither "having last-minute questions" nor "having nothing to discuss and study" are any good. Sometimes I would try to find out answers to the unresolved questions after meetings, but it just takes me too much time and effort to do that. There are too many materials for studying. I don't think any of us will be patient enough to keep coping with questions over a week. We'll see.

What do you mean "for my money"??

In my opinion.