ISG 0607 Scary Swine Flu

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Wayne
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註冊時間: 週四 5月 13, 2004 10:53 am
來自: Taipei, Taiwan, Pandemonium

Re: ISG 0607 Scary Swine Flu

文章 Wayne »

Regarding the example in the Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary:

1. What do you think of the show so far?

I found "so far" would not be the modifier for the main verb "think"; instead, I think, it modifies the noun "the show"(that has been going -- up to this moment). Therefore, saying "do you think" is quite all right. I don't think you'll say , "What have you thought of the show so far?"


2. Detective are so far at a loss to explain the reason for his death.

Semantically, "so far" is used to modify the main verb, 'are", and the state of being at a loss has been going for a while -- up to the present moment; therefore, the use of present tense is indeed questionable, I believe. I would change the verb tense to present perfect; alternatively, I'd change the adverbial "so far" into " as of now" or "at this moment".
Knowledge is power -- when shared.
Sherry Liao
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註冊時間: 週五 12月 07, 2007 12:15 pm

Re: ISG 0607 Scary Swine Flu

文章 Sherry Liao »

Kooper 寫:In the thread http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=978449, a native speaker claimed that "So far I haven't known his name." was grammatically incorrect and that "So far I don't know his name." was better. Do you agree with him?

In this thread http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=433246, another native speaker recommended to use either " I am more than happy to share what I know." or "I am more than happy to share what I have learnt so far," but didn't mention whether "I am more than happy to share what I have known so far." is acceptable or not. What do you think about the last sentence?
Hi, Kooper,

I think "know" is a special word. It might not be adequate to take this word as examples to discuss the tense of sentences containing the phrase "so far". According to my grammar book (Hey, I really love this small book. I can find so many things in it), "know" is a verb which contains the meaning of "keep the status of ...", i.e. it's a verb describing a status from the past to the future. Please check out the following examples:

I know him. (O)
I am knowing him. (X)

Therefore, it might be inappropriate to say "I haven't known his name" or "what I have known...", or use a simple present tense with "so far" (e.g. I know him so far).
Kooper 寫:I found several sentences in Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English are past simple. However, in the last reply of the two threads, http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1259599 & http://forum.wordreference.com/showthre ... ght=so+far, both of the members changed the "so far" in the past-tense sentences to either "up to that time" or "up to that point." To me, it looks like "so far" cannot be used in either past simple or past perfect tense. Do you agree?
Although I am not qualified to say that (as I am not a native speaker), I still have to say that a past tense sentence with the phrase "so far" sounds really awkward to me.
Sherry Liao
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文章: 1483
註冊時間: 週五 12月 07, 2007 12:15 pm

Re: ISG 0607 Scary Swine Flu

文章 Sherry Liao »

Wayne 寫:Even Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary has examples of using present tense in a sentence that contains the phrase "so far".

In Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary , the definition of "so far" is "until now" or "up to the present time". This definition suggests that the time point of something happening starts from the past and continues up to now. This perfectly matches the usage of present perfect time, as mentioned by Kooper. In other words, using present perfect time is more reasonable.

As for the examples quoted by Sherry,

"... So far there are no statistics, however, on how many thousands of other travelers wanted to kill the people jabbering on their cell phones on the planes."

"... So far the program is only operating in Louisville, but KFC plans on taking the program to four more cities."

I think both phrases of "so far"should be replaced by "at this time", if we do not change the tense of the main verb. Using "so far" is poor usage, particularly in the second example when the main verb uses present progressive tense.
Dear Wayne,

Thank you for the explanations, I am a bit shocked though. The sentences were quoted from an American best seller, who is also one of my favorite authors, and I really love his writing style.

What am I going to do now? :sickness: :ultra: :sorrow:
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Just JJ
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註冊時間: 週二 4月 29, 2008 7:34 pm

Re: ISG 0607 Scary Swine Flu

文章 Just JJ »

Kooper 寫:Dear Wayne and Sherry,
Thanks for your replies. After browsing threads on WORDREFERENCE and looking up my dictionaries again. I became more confused. Below are my questions.
Guys:
Sometimes, English native speakers don't agree with each other. :lol:
So, relax....


Check this up: (from: http://www.wretch.cc/blog/phillippe/14473996)
顧問老師的意見總是中肯卻針針見血
於是...我一邊淌血...一邊把書拿回來好好研究個清楚
今天要看的是:
1.can’t help + Ving
2.can’t help but + VR
3. can’t but + VR
上面這三個片語有什摸不同?

這三個片語其實都可解釋為「忍不住、禁不住、不得不」,只不過
1. can’t help + Ving—最正規、常見,字典裡可以查到的用法
2. can’t help but + VR—多見於非正式語體,語言學家認為仍合乎語言習慣
3. can’t but + VR—較不正規,語言學家認為較不好的用法
所以基本上……
She can’t help falling in love with the handsome guy.
= She can’t help but fall in love with the handsome guy.
= She can’t but fall in love with the handsome guy.
簡單的說….就是三個用法攏ㄟ通啦!
不過如果在標準英語中要排出個高下的話
那當然是 1號 better than 2號 better than 3號 啦!
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chiron
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註冊時間: 週三 10月 03, 2007 4:23 pm

Re: ISG 0607 Scary Swine Flu

文章 chiron »

Dear all:
I'm too tired this morning. It's already 8: 30 when I woke up. So sorry to destroy another record of a successful meeting with all 6 members. Pls forgive my absence. :ccry:

p.s. Can someone call me next time if the same situation happens again? My cell phone is 0931226752. Kooper, we can help each other. :D
Please call me Na'vi!
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Wayne
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註冊時間: 週四 5月 13, 2004 10:53 am
來自: Taipei, Taiwan, Pandemonium

Re: ISG 0607 Scary Swine Flu

文章 Wayne »

Kooper 寫:
Sherry Liao 寫:So far there is no positive case in Australia, and the authorities continue to examine and keep track of the test results of the potential swine flu cases.
Hi Sherry,
I looked up the Longman dictionary and found out most of the sentences including "so far" are Present Perfect tense. Only two of the sentences are Past tense. Since you are talking about a period of time from the past to the moment when the news is reported, I would think Present Perfect tense is a better choice. What do you think?
I have several Longman Dictionaries of different versions but did not find the two example sentences that use past tense. However, according to Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English for Advanced Learners (2009 edition), no such examples are given. What I am trying to say is Longman Dictionary editors are always trying to update the contents of their products and that is what it is of the purpose of revision. Perhaps they found that using past tense might not be appropriate. :twisted:
Knowledge is power -- when shared.
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Wayne
Member
文章: 1500
註冊時間: 週四 5月 13, 2004 10:53 am
來自: Taipei, Taiwan, Pandemonium

Re: ISG 0607 Scary Swine Flu

文章 Wayne »

Kooper 寫:
In the thread http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=978449, a native speaker claimed that "So far I haven't known his name." was grammatically incorrect and that "So far I don't know his name." was better. Do you agree with him?

In this thread http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=433246, another native speaker recommended to use either " I am more than happy to share what I know." or "I am more than happy to share what I have learnt so far," but didn't mention whether "I am more than happy to share what I have known so far." is acceptable or not. What do you think about the last sentence?
Wordreference is a public forum. Even though lots of the contributors are native speakers, everyone can say whatever he think is right. As it lacks authority, I do not think it is reliable enough. I would use it as a reference with tremendous caution as a fastidious user of English would too.
Knowledge is power -- when shared.
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Just JJ
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註冊時間: 週二 4月 29, 2008 7:34 pm

Re: ISG 0607 Scary Swine Flu

文章 Just JJ »

chiron 寫:Dear all:

p.s. Can someone call me next time if the same situation happens again? My cell phone is 0931226752. Kooper, we can help each other. :D
Chiron:
We thought you went mountain climbing.
If it were not for the rumor, we definitely fwill give you a call. :wink:
Sherry Liao
YOYO member
文章: 1483
註冊時間: 週五 12月 07, 2007 12:15 pm

Re: ISG 0607 Scary Swine Flu

文章 Sherry Liao »

Gosh, it's me who assumed that you had gone hiking with Toshi... soooorry...... :oops:

And since you were not present then, we have made some decision for you... :mrgreen:
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chiron
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註冊時間: 週三 10月 03, 2007 4:23 pm

Re: ISG 0607 Scary Swine Flu

文章 chiron »

Just JJ 寫:
chiron 寫:Dear all:

p.s. Can someone call me next time if the same situation happens again? My cell phone is 0931226752. Kooper, we can help each other. :D
Chiron:
We thought you went mountain climbing.
If it were not for the rumor, we definitely fwill give you a call. :wink:
No wonder, since I have to go to cram school that day, I cancel my trip in the last minute. How could I give up such an important club? Right?!
Please call me Na'vi!
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