有關引用文章是否該採用 native speaker 所寫的文章好呢?

有關引用文章是否該採用 native speaker 所寫的文章好呢?

文章toshi » 週三 2月 18, 2009 5:21 pm

先說...這只是提出來供大家思考討論 ^_^
沒打算變成政策

有會員跟我提到說
有其他的英文俱樂部有明白規定只能使用native speaker寫的文章
這是否值得 YOYO 參考呢?
像我自己所寫的文章
很明顯就是台灣式的英文
以學習"英文"本身而言
對大家的英文不會有幫助的
甚至可能還有害

但我明知道可能會寫出亂七八糟的文章來
卻還是想寫
原因很簡單
我想跟大家分享一些想法
而許多的想法又是無法找到 native speaker 所寫的文章的
這時候除了自己動手寫之外
別無他途

有一次我在星期六的 meeting 討論中提到一個比喻
"英文" 好比是 "body"
而文章的內容好比是 "soul"
兩者是相輔相成的
不可偏廢
但對於我這個靈魂重度需求者而言
確實也該思考一下是否該重視一下 body 的成長

至於大家打算怎麼做
我並沒有打算扼殺你們的創造力 ^_^


對於這個議題
不知道大家有什麼看法嗎?
隨你所喜
或酒、或詩、或是喜!
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Re: 有關引用文章是否該採用 native speaker 所寫的文章好呢?

文章Sherry Liao » 週四 2月 19, 2009 1:20 am

For me, I don't think writing articles oneself for the meeting topics could be a problem.

Actually last year when I first learnt that another club did treat it as a rule, at that moment I was thinking it's lucky that we didn't have such a rule in YOYO. I don't think a rule like that in an English club would be a plus for their members in English learning.

For starters, if reading an article written by the club members could have a negative effect on English learning, the first thing needs to be banned is writing English on the forum, but it seems that the club which bans writing topic oneself is asking people to write in English on the forum. In addition, if we are afraid that reading articles from non-native speakers would have bad effects, we should also try not to talk with non-native speakers, since it would have the same effects on us. But that's what we are always doing in regular meetings of an English club. Some people in Taiwan may not have many chances to talk to the so-called native speakers, and can only take the meetings as a regular way to do the oral practice. But it is very easy to obtain articles from the "native speakers" and I believe most of us read at least a few of them everyday. It's a paradox that we take regular meetings as a way to practice English but are afraid that an article from a non-native speaker a week among the many articles from "native speakers" we read would have bad effects on us.

Also, I wonder what's the definition of "standard English". For me, English is more like an international language, not the one that just belong to Americans, British people, and the like. Take my job for example. We have to communicate with people from different countries everyday, and the correspondence from all the countries (except Mainland China and Japan) are all written in English. For those correspondence and communications, what's crucial is that they have to be clear and to the point. (Oh, and formal usages should be used in a business letter.) However, normally, it is quite natural that foreigners speak English with their native accent, and with an influence of their mother language in their thinking. It's my opinion that there is no point in trying to pretend to be an American or something.

In fact, it's much easier to choose a couple of articles and derive a few questions from them. However, nothing wrong to make your topic organized in a way you feel like conveying to the attendants. In any event, I think it is a good idea to post the (English) references of your topic, if there are any.
最後由 Sherry Liao 於 週四 2月 19, 2009 12:35 pm 編輯,總共編輯了 1 次。
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Re: 有關引用文章是否該採用 native speaker 所寫的文章好呢?

文章Rock » 週四 2月 19, 2009 11:55 am

YES. :lol: I prefer an article from native English speaker.

However, I don't think it will be a problem here, either. Your writing is good, your hosting was great, and we all learned something new and interesting yesterday. Thanks. :lol: The most important thing is -- you are the only one who is dilligent, and also crazy, enough to write an article all by yourself. The rest of us would just copy something from the internet. :lol: Most of the articles will be from native speakers, anyway.
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Re: 有關引用文章是否該採用 native speaker 所寫的文章好呢?

文章Wayne » 週四 2月 19, 2009 12:41 pm

Reading articles written by native speakers is definitely not a bad thing.

However, they may not be 100% correct. I read NBA news on ESPN.com regularly. From time to time, I find mistakes written by native speakers. Nevertheless, I have learned more correct, good English. Our former Minister of Education gave us a solid example, that even a native speaker makes mistakes. Same for the native English speakers.

I went to the English Teachers Conference last fall. In one seminar, I learned something interesting. Speaking either standard American English or British English may not be as imporatant as in the past. The new trend is "global English". As long as you can communicate with others, it's no big deal whether you say two "book" or he "do". This was maintained by the General Manager of ETS Taiwan who mentioned this based on his talk when he had conversation with ETS representatives.

Don't worry about your accent. Having a non-native accent is absolutely OK. Tou'll have to adapt to the British or australian accent once in a while. Similarly, native speakers must bear with those who speak non-standard English. For example,if you take a cab in Vancouver, more often than you'll run into a driver with very strong Indian/Bangladesh/Sri lanka/Pakistan accent.

Despite this fact, I still belive it is more strict when it comes to written English.

If possible, I hope that we read articles in correctly written English. However, when you write, don't worry about the mistakes. The most important thing is you are writing in English. Everybody starts from zero. Only when you write in English regularly will you improve your writen English, however slowly it may be. An improved way is to find someone who can edit your English writing, and then you'll improve faster. I think the best and fastest way is to read English articles, which has few or no mistakes, regularly.
Knowledge is power -- when shared.
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Re: 有關引用文章是否該採用 native speaker 所寫的文章好呢?

文章CarmenTao » 週四 2月 19, 2009 2:35 pm

I prefer using articles composed by native speakers.
:sun:
Here are my opinions:
1. Articles by our hosts seem too Taiwanese to me when I read them. The grammar of the article may be correct and the structure is not bad, but the thoughts and the way of language use are apparently very Taiwanese to me. I wanna learn something really native even if they are some stupid mistakes native speakers would make. Since I'm learning a foreign language, I wanna think the way they think and write the way they write. For example, the traditional way to write a Chinese article is to put the conclusion in the last part, but it's totally the opposite in English writing. Most of our members are not English majors and have not been taught those tips structurally. Writing is a good practice, but I think posting articles in response to other posts on the forum is good enough. Not everyone will read every single post on the forum, but the meeting participants are definitely encouraged to read the articles before coming. These articles are therefore definitely important for participants. From the prospective of learning, sometimes the references provided could be even worthier of being read if we do not use native speakers' articles.

2. Native speakers may make mistakes of course. We also make a lot of mistakes in Chinese. If hosts select articles carefully, that should not be a problem.

Whatever the result is, I still enjoy going to YOYO and will continue to go!!! The best activity on Wednesday evenings is going to YOYO certainly. :mrgreen:
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Re: 有關引用文章是否該採用 native speaker 所寫的文章好呢?

文章toshi » 週五 2月 20, 2009 1:30 am

Dear Sherry, Rock, Wayne and Carmen,

Thank you ever so much for sharing your opinions!
I've learned a lot from you.

Anyone else wants to say something about this?
Welcome!
Hope you all enjoy it! ^_^
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Re: 有關引用文章是否該採用 native speaker 所寫的文章好呢?

文章Kooper » 週二 2月 24, 2009 6:07 pm

Rather than being disliked, a self-composed article should be praised and encouraged since only those who are most studious and craziest in English learning dare to write the articles by themselves. As long as it is proofread by Wayne before posting as a topic, I have no problem reading an article written by our member.
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Re: 有關引用文章是否該採用 native speaker 所寫的文章好呢?

文章Kooper » 週二 2月 24, 2009 6:26 pm

Sherry Liao 寫:For me, I don't think writing articles oneself for the meeting topics could be a problem.

Actually last year when I first learnt that another club did treat it as a rule, at that moment I was thinking it's lucky that we didn't have such a rule in YOYO. I don't think a rule like that in an English club would be a plus for their members in English learning.

For starters, if reading an article written by the club members could have a negative effect on English learning, the first thing needs to be banned is writing English on the forum, but it seems that the club which bans writing topic oneself is asking people to write in English on the forum. In addition, if we are afraid that reading articles from non-native speakers would have bad effects, we should also try not to talk with non-native speakers, since it would have the same effects on us. But that's what we are always doing in regular meetings of an English club. Some people in Taiwan may not have many chances to talk to the so-called native speakers, and can only take the meetings as a regular way to do the oral practice. But it is very easy to obtain articles from the "native speakers" and I believe most of us read at least a few of them everyday. It's a paradox that we take regular meetings as a way to practice English but are afraid that an article from a non-native speaker a week among the many articles from "native speakers" we read would have bad effects on us.

Also, I wonder what's the definition of "standard English". For me, English is more like an international language, not the one that just belong to Americans, British people, and the like. Take my job for example. We have to communicate with people from different countries everyday, and the correspondence from all the countries (except Mainland China and Japan) are all written in English. For those correspondence and communications, what's crucial is that they have to be clear and to the point. (Oh, and formal usages should be used in a business letter.) However, normally, it is quite natural that foreigners speak English with their native accent, and with an influence of their mother language in their thinking. It's my opinion that there is no point in trying to pretend to be an American or something.

In fact, it's much easier to choose a couple of articles and derive a few questions from them. However, nothing wrong to make your topic organized in a way you feel like conveying to the attendants. In any event, I think it is a good idea to post the (English) references of your topic, if there are any.

Hi Sherry, how come your logic is so perfect and your explanation is so pellucid? I admire your wisdom. :sun:
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Re: 有關引用文章是否該採用 native speaker 所寫的文章好呢?

文章Dawn » 週四 2月 26, 2009 1:21 am

I totally agree with Wayne!

What I concerned is well written articles with good qualities, which means meaningful writings, with no grammar errors,clear logic and authentic usages will be better.

So, I think we should concerned the quality of the article, not the nationality of the authors. ^^
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Re: 有關引用文章是否該採用 native speaker 所寫的文章好呢?

文章toshi » 週二 3月 03, 2009 11:55 pm

Dear Kooper and Dawn,

Thank you for your opinion too! ^_^
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