12/22(Tue.) Pornhub's policy changes / Face-recognition surveillance systems (Host: Sherry)

[Sherry Liao]

Session I : Pornhub's policy changes

Reading materials for your reference:
Mastercard, Visa and Discover cut ties with Pornhub following allegations of child abuse
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/14/busi ... index.html
Pornhub parent MindGeek sued by 40 'Girls Do Porn' victims for $40M
https://www.businessinsider.com/girls-d ... on-2020-12
The Children of Pornhub
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/04/opin ... cking.html

Q1: On the whole, do you agree Pornhub's action to remove all videos from unverified users? Why or why not?
Q2. Do you think online platforms are responsible for the materials that third-party users upload to their sites? Why or why not? Do you support the idea that victims sue internet platforms for the criminal and libelous content on their sites?
Q3. In your opinions, what are the best ways to stop the spread of non-consensual violence and child abuse content over the internet?

Session II : Face-recognition surveillance systems

Reading materials for your reference:
Resisting the rise of facial recognition: Growing use of surveillance technology has prompted calls for bans and stricter regulation
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03188-2
Study: Facial Recognition Is Getting Better at Identifying People in Masks
https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/s ... 84602.html
Massachusetts on the verge of becoming first state to ban police use of facial recognition
https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/2/2209 ... ice-reform
Facial recognition: Shop where everybody knows your name
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-30219820

Q1: What is your opinons on Facial-recognition technology (FRT) for surveillance purpose? Do you think it could be part of ‘safe city’ or ‘smart city’ solutions to crime?
Q2: Would you sacrifice your privacy for a safer society? Is it acceptable for you to live in a society having ordinary video cameras around? Is it acceptable for you to live in an extensive network of facial-recognition cameras? Why?
Q3: In addition to police and government, private companies also collect and distribute individuals’ biometric data (take the notorious Clearview AI, for example). What can companies do with your data? To what extent would you accept or enjoy the service in exchange for your biometric information?

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Agenda:
6:45 ~ 7:00pm Greetings & Free Talk / Ordering Beverage or Meal / Getting Newcomer’s Information
7:00 ~ 7:10pm Opening Remarks / Newcomer’s Self-introduction / Grouping
(Session I)
7:10 ~ 7:45pm Discussion Session (35 mins)
7:45 ~ 8:00pm Summarization (15 mins)
8:00 ~ 8:05pm Regrouping / Instruction Giving / Taking a 5 Minutes Break (Intermission)
(Session II)
8:05 ~ 8:40pm Discussion Session (35 mins)
8:40 ~ 8:55pm Summarization (15 mins)
8:55 ~ 9:00pm Concluding Remarks / Announcements

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Meeting Date: As shown on the Subject Line
Meeting Time: 7:00pm – 9:00pm
Meeting Venue: 丹堤咖啡 Dante Coffee (Minimum Order $85)
Address: 台北市濟南路三段25號[MAP]-捷運忠孝新生站3號出口步行3分鐘

Important Notes:
1. We advise participants to print out the discussion questions and bring them to the meeting for reference. As for the supporting articles, feel free to print them out, as well, according to your preference.
2. We suggest that participants read the articles and think about the questions in advance.
3. Newcomers should prepare a two-to-three minute self-introduction in English to deliver when called upon by the host before the start of the discussion. The host may also ask you to give brief feedback about the meeting at the conclusion of the meeting.
4. We conduct the entire meeting in English. All participants should have at least moderate English-conversation skills and be able to articulate your ideas for each discussion question.
5. We welcome newcomers and other guests to attend the meetings and join the discussion freely for two times. After that, we hope you will consider becoming a YoYo English Club member. We charge a NT$1500 lifetime membership fee, or NT$1000 for students.

[Rock]

Pornhub is a very bad thing, same as other streaming websites offering free porn. There may be only one silver lining: They are also destroying porn industry.

[Sherry Liao]

Pornhub is a very bad thing, same as other streaming websites offering free porn. There may be only one silver lining: They are also destroying porn industry.

So... is destroying porn industry a good thing?

[Luis Ko]

So... is destroying porn industry a good thing?

Good question!

[Sherry Liao]

So... is destroying porn industry a good thing?

Good question!

I should have put it into the questions for discussion...

[Rock]

I just thought it was safer to be politically correct sometimes. Apparently I was wrong. Sherry is too smart to be 敷衍 like that. How do you say 敷衍 again?

[Michael-liu]

1. I think Pornhub should be held accountable for the illegal videos its users post on its platform. The reason is they should be the gatekeeper for all videos posted.

I understand that technically it is difficult. So, the fundemental solution for the issue is what Luis said in my hosting topic. "Education". Parents should educate their children never ever take any nude photos and videos under any circumstances.
(To think twice, education is about "prevention", but neither Sherry's topic nor mine is about "prevention" of sexual crimes)

Anyway, I really have a big doubt whether my daughter will listen carefully to the above advice (when she is a teenager) in nowaday society where Internet and social medias dominate our daily life.

2. I am personally totally fine with facial recognition technology and don't care survilence cameras all over the place. If I think my face is my "privacy", I should wear a 頭套 when I walk in the streets.

3. I read news every single day, but I never heard of Clearview AI, so I googled its related news.

Clearview argued that "Computer language is the language used in computer, so it should be under the protection of the First Amendment( freedom of speech)" This defense argument is funny, silly, and ridiculous to me. That being said, I don't really care much about they downloaded photos from Facebook. They used this face database to catch a pedophile, didn't it? Good thing! If you don't like what they do, don't use facebook then.

4. It is so time consuming to write my pointless and mediocre comment, but I just want to show my support to Sherry. Haha

[Sherry Liao]

1. I think Pornhub should be held accountable for the illegal videos its users post on its platform. The reason is they should be the gatekeeper for all videos posted.

I understand that technically it is difficult. So, the fundemental solution for the issue is what Luis said in my hosting topic. "Education". Parents should educate their children never ever take any nude photos and videos under any circumstances.
(To think twice, education is about "prevention", but neither Sherry's topic nor mine is about "prevention" of sexual crimes)

Anyway, I really have a big doubt whether my daughter will listen carefully to the above advice (when she is a teenager) in nowaday society where Internet and social medias dominate our daily life.

2. I am personally totally fine with facial recognition technology and don't care survilence cameras all over the place. If I think my face is my "privacy", I should wear a 頭套 when I walk in the streets.

3. I read news every single day, but I never heard of Clearview AI, so I googled its related news.

Clearview argued that "Computer language is the language used in computer, so it should be under the protection of the First Amendment( freedom of speech)" This defense argument is funny, silly, and ridiculous to me. That being said, I don't really care much about they downloaded photos from Facebook. They used this face database to catch a pedophile, didn't it? Good thing! If you don't like what they do, don't use facebook then.

4. It is so time consuming to write my pointless and mediocre comment, but I just want to show my support to Sherry. Haha

Thank you for your support, Michael! It’s good to have your comments here.

I agree with you that education is important, though as you said it is no easy task. But the pornographic videos spread on the internet are not just those filmed knowingly and then uploaded with or without consent. According to the report “The Children of Pornhub” by The New York Times writer Nicholas Kristof, Pornhub “is infested with rape videos” and those "by spy cam videos" – apparently recorded without the victims’ consent.

In fact, victims’ videos circulating through various channels. Years ago, when the 李宗瑞’s event was just brought to light, my colleagues shared the victims’ videos using USB flash drives in the office. I also got a copy when I asked them to back up some important work files into a hard disk I provided.

So, this is my next question: don’t men feel ashamed when they share those victims’ pornographic videos? Or they even feel proud of it?

[Sherry Liao]

I just thought it was safer to be politically correct sometimes. Apparently I was wrong. Sherry is too smart to be 敷衍 like that. How do you say 敷衍 again?

Uh... "tongue in cheek"?

According to Collins Dictionary:
used to describe a remark or a piece of writing that is meant to be funny and ironic, and is not meant to be taken seriously
Ex.: I think people are taking all this more seriously than we intended. It was supposed to be tongue in cheek.

I just thought it was safer to be politically correct sometimes.

What's the politically "incorrect" answer then? Tell me, I assure your safety...

[Rock]

What's the politically "incorrect" answer then? Tell me, I assure your safety...

OK, I'd be sharing this in the meeting if you assure my safety.

[Kooper]

Regarding 敷衍, there are probably tons of words, depending on contexts. I remember Kat once said "brush off" could mean 敷衍.

This web page compiles a list of expressions about敷衍: https://www.chtoen.com/%E6%95%B7%E8%A1% ... 45v_bMHslc

The YouTuber 阿滴 used an adjective "standoffish" when it comes to 敷衍.

[Iris Wu]

I will be physically present to support our dear host, so I feel less guilty for not writing long comments!
Another excuse is I barely survived when trying to read all the articles!
Sherry has been known for her seriousness. Rock, you’d better not to take her words lightly. Sherry’s mind and brain are like a surveillance camera, always watching over you and what you said.

From this point of view, I do think a surveillance camera system facilitates crime prevention in metropolitan areas or even safety in the remote countryside. It definitely reduces the cost of policing or security guard patrolling efforts and effectively deters burglary type of crimes.

Another positive personal experience with the surveillance camera system is that once we took a taxi and left a very important document in the cab. We were so worried and reported to the police station to get some help. They immediately retrieved the tape and located the taxi driver by the license number and we were able to get our document back. We were so grateful for the efficiency of the system.

Surely there is the other side of the coin, the privacy invasion issue. Any technological invention can be abused. It usually takes more effort to develop a more complete system to restrain the invention or make science and technology truly work for the benefit of human beings.

[Michael-liu]

So, this is my next question: don’t men feel ashamed when they share those victims’ pornographic videos? Or they even feel proud of it?

The simple answer to this question is they should feel ashamed, but they just don't, probably because they think they are not the one who commited the crime or who secretly videotaped.

How can we expect everyone in this world all have human decency and high moral standard? It is not mission difficult. It is mission impossible.

It is sad but that is just the nature of the beast. No pun intended.

[Sherry Liao]

I will be physically present to support our dear host, so I feel less guilty for not writing long comments!
Another excuse is I barely survived when trying to read all the articles!
Sherry has been known for her seriousness. Rock, you’d better not to take her words lightly. Sherry’s mind and brain are like a surveillance camera, always watching over you and what you said.

Rock proved that he was a competent "devil’s advocate" last night. I was speechless..

From this point of view, I do think a surveillance camera system facilitates crime prevention in metropolitan areas or even safety in the remote countryside. It definitely reduces the cost of policing or security guard patrolling efforts and effectively deters burglary type of crimes.

I agree with you on this point, Iris. Eric brought a different perspective last night though. Eric’s viewpoint was interesting, and I’d like to record it here (hope I didn’t get him wrong).

Eric believe that people should be more powerful than their government. In the United States, government’s power is limited and bound to specific principles, and that’s the concept of a “small government”. Eric mentioned that it’s just like the nature of insurance – people should sacrifice some benefit (convenience, lowering the expenses of policing, etc.) for prevention of a “big government”.

[Sherry Liao]

So, this is my next question: don’t men feel ashamed when they share those victims’ pornographic videos? Or they even feel proud of it?

The simple answer to this question is they should feel ashamed, but they just don't, probably because they think they are not the one who commited the crime or who secretly videotaped.

How can we expect everyone in this world all have human decency and high moral standard? It is not mission difficult. It is mission impossible.

I like your answer, Michael.
(Is that because it sounds politically correct...?)

It is sad but that is just the nature of the beast. No pun intended.