9/17(Sat) The battle of Red Cliff (host: Winston)

YOYO member
文章: 47
註冊時間: 週一 12月 17, 2018 8:37 pm

9/17(Sat) The battle of Red Cliff (host: Winston)

文章 李昰翰 »


Dear Yoyoers,
I’ve been thinking of choosing a historic story as YOYO’s meeting topic, and it’s my first time to try it, and hopefully, history series of topics might become one of YOYO’s diversified topic lines. Three Kingdoms is a well-known history, and the battle of Red Cliff is no doubt the essence episode of the stories. Even nowadays, the stories are still appeared at a variety of formation on our dayly life. Some of you might even collect and display an art work associated with historic figures at Three Kingdoms at home, and some people are fans for the history stories.
It’s summer time, and the sky is so clear and hot. It is one of a good choices to watch movies at home as leisure time activities on summer days. You are kindly invited to watch the two movies of the Red Cliff, and an English documentary film prior to the meeting. An article of battle of Red Cliff in English was provided that you’ll learn some words entailed with history. “Odes to the Red Cliff” created by the literature master Su Shi (Dongpo) triggered many discussions by later generations of literati, and let’s try to read it as well. The meeting will take place on Sep.17,22. It’s still quite long from now. I’ll host the meeting on-line, and see you then….Thank you.

1.https://factsanddetails.com/china/cat2/ ... -5429.html
2.Odes to the Red Cliff(赤壁賦)
3. Military advisors ranking
4.Valiant generals ranking

1. (赤壁上,2:25:21)

Documentary film:
(184) Red Cliffs and Jiangling 208 - THREE KINGDOMS DOCUMENTARY - YouTube (17:15)

Cao Cao曹操
Xun You荀攸
Jia Xu賈詡
Sima Yi司馬懿
Cao Hong曹洪
Xiahou Jun夏侯惇
Jiang Gan蔣幹
Cai Mao蔡瑁
Zhang Yun張允

Sun Quan孫權
Zhiu Yu, the grand viceroy of Wu周瑜,東吳大都督
Lu Xun陸遜
Lu Su魯肅
Huang Gai黃蓋
Gan Xing甘興
Sun Shangxiang孫尚香
Xiao Qiao小喬

Liu Bei劉備
Zhuge Liang, a military advisor for Liu Bei諸葛亮
Guan Yu關羽
Zhang Fei張飛
Zhoa Yun趙雲

Liu Biao劉表
Liu Qi 劉琪(Liu Biao’s son)
Liu Cong劉琮(Liu Biao’s son)

Yangtze river長江
Jiangdong (East Wu)江東
Battle of Changban長坂坡之戰

Su Shi (Dongpo)蘇軾(東坡)
Odes to the Red Cliff(赤壁賦)

The Battle of Red Cliff determined the borders of the Three Kingdoms period, when China had three separate rulers. On the whole, the battle set the stage for the ultimate partitioning of the then nominal existence of a weak Empire into three independent kingdoms, Wei, Shu, and Wu. Yet the subsequent and culminating reunification of the whole China once again as an empire, was not effected by any of the three original aspiring camps. History does have a life of its own
There were so many heroes and talents devoted to their respective camp, but the finale none of the three kingdoms reunited China. How about your life story? Have you ever worked so hard to pursue your life dreams? Does the story light up any enlightenment for you toward your life philosophy? Any ideas?

Liu Bei's chief advisor Zhuge Liang sets forth on a diplomatic mission to Eastern Wu to form an alliance between Liu Bei and Sun Quan to deal with Cao Cao's invasion. Sun Quan was initially in the midst of a dilemma of whether to surrender or resist, but his decision to resist Cao Cao hardens after Zhuge Liang's clever persuasion and a subsequent tiger hunt with his Grand Viceroy Zhou Yu and his sister Sun Shangxiang.

How can Zhuge Liang persuade Sun Quan to form an alliance between Liu Bei and Sun Quan? What is Zhuge Liang’s negotiation strategy to convince Sun Quan on the alliance? Have you ever found any business strategy or other historic events using similar persuasion strategy?

The de facto leader of the Wei kingdom, Cao Cao was the most powerful leader in the Battle at Red Cliff and was one of the most powerful men in China at that time. He commanded an 800,000-strong army and wanted to expand his kingdom to the south and west. Sun Quan is the King of the southern state Wu. Liu Bei is the leader of a western state. Zhiu Yu, the viceroy of Wu and Zhuge Liang, a military advisor for Liu Bei, form a friendship and convince the leader of Wu and Shu to form an alliance to battle Cao Cao and ultimately prevail with a force of only 50,000 men.
The alliance between Liu Bei and Sun Quan come with only 50,000 men, but they successfully defeat Cao Cao’s 800,000-strong army and naval fleets. How can they accomplish such great achievement? What are the key plots, tactics, and strategy which make this great success? In modern days, will it be still possible for a small country to defeat a giant country? Do you learn anything for their great success on the battle?

According to the National Palace Museum, Taipei: “ From the initial marshaling of forces on both sides, to the final decisive pitched battle, the whole sequence of events lasted mere several months, but has since then inspired people's imagination for over a thousand years, and even well into today. Poets, painters, calligraphers, playwrights, novelists, and many others, all in their various creative ways, join to extol this historical and historic romance of the legendary battle, as well as its constellation of heroes and heroines
The story inspired people’s imagination for over a thousand years. Are you a fan for Three Kingdoms as well? Poets, painters, calligraphers, playwrights, novelists, and many others, all in their various creative ways, and nowadays what else can you find them in our life? Do you collect anything associated with Three Kingdoms, or did you go to somewhere appreciate art works associated with Three Kingdoms?

Frances Wood told the BBC: "It's very much just about warfare but also cunning strategy. There are wily generals who do very clever things. If they run out of arrows, they send a boat down the river past the enemy camp, and the enemy thinks, 'Goodness me what is this?' and they fire a million arrows into the side of the boat. And they capture them in straw, and so that's how you get spare arrows. "So it's full of stories that are not just about slaying or taking territory, but also about being clever, and outwitting your enemy." [Source: Carrie Gracie BBC News, October 15, 2012]
Does “deception” a good strategy on warfare? If so, why on Russia’s invasion to Ukraine, the majority of the countries in the world condemn Russia’s many deceptions in stead of using words like “clever, outwitting”? Will there be any moral principle recognized universally on warfare? If so, why in some events which were praised with “clever, outwitting” words, while in some case of deception were slashed with “evil, demon”, can you identify or clarify the difference on them?


Carrie Gracie of BBC News wrote: “It is deception not force of numbers that wins the battle of Red Cliff. But there is more scheming to come from Liu Bei and friends. "Knowing that the enemy has a spy in their camp, they publicly beat and humiliate one of the most important generals so that this is reported back and his defection then looks completely authentic," explains Kaiser Kuo.
Do you recognize that deception is the crucial strategy to win the battle of red cliff? Will it be appropriate to use deception strategy to win business battles as well? Deception itself is a good thing or bad one?

According to the National Palace Museum, Taipei: “Contributing no less to the Red Cliff legend's everlasting popularity are the players and stakeholders starring in this remarkable performance. Hardly can any other times throughout Chinese history rival this brief period in such a sublime showing of a galaxy of talents. Across all three camps, there was no shortage of a gifted persona: intelligent strategists as well as valiant warriors emerging and rising all at the same time
In terms of intelligent strategist, how will you rank top 3 across three camps sequentially?
And, how will you rank top 5 valiant warriors across three camps in order? Why?

Before and after the Battle of Red Cliff, and into the times of the Three Kingdoms, the leaders of Wei, Shu, and Wu did all they could to entice the best over to their camps from all possible sources, to the extent that Cao Cao once made three consecutive "Talent Scout" announcements explicitly looking for talents regardless of the candidates' character. It was a controversial move; however, the motivation was really no different from Liu Bei's paying three persistent visits to Zhuge, both indicative of an urgent "thirst" for talents.
Among Cao Cao, Sun Quan, and Liu Bei in terms of HR art skills, who is the best one sophisticated and keen at enticing talents to their camps? If you were the talents at that time, which boss will you choose to devote your talents? Why?

“The roll call reveals a list of unforgettable names: Liu Bei, Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Zhuge Kongming, and Zhao Yun from Shu; Sun Quan, Zhou Yu, Lu Su, and Lu Xun from Wu; Cao Cao and his sons, Xun You, Jia Xu, and Sima Yi from Wei. These larger-than-life historical figures, either in their dashing, heroic acts, or poetic mood of utterances, each with his unique talents exemplified classical paragons for us to admire.
Is it the Times itself helping perpetuate the Heroes, or the Heroes themselves helping glorify the Times? If you were a goddess-like lady at that time, and you have an opportunity, will you choose to marry to a king, an intelligent military advisor, or a valiant general? Above-mentioned list of heroes, who will you be willing to get married with? Why?

According to the National Palace Museum, Taipei: “In the fifth year of Emperor Shenzong's Yuanfeng reign in the Northern Song period (1082), more than 800 years after the epic Battle of Red Cliff, the famous poet-official Su Shi (Dongpo) and friends made two trips to Red Nose Cliff (Chibiji) west of the town Huangzhou. To commemorate these trips, Su wrote two rhapsodies that would earn him universal praise in the annals of Chinese literature: "Odes to the Red Cliff." Afterwards, Red Nose Cliff at Huangzhou became known as "Dongpo's Red Cliff."
After reading Su Shi’s “Odes to the Red Cliff”, can you think of what was Su Dongpo trying to interpret his thoughts to the people? Can you think of his mentally status quo when he visited Red Cliff? One day if you’ll take a trip to Red Cliff, what will be your mentally status quo possibly by then?

3:45 ~ 4:00pm Greetings & Free Talk / Ordering Beverage or Meal / Getting Newcomer’s Information
4:00 ~ 4:10pm Opening Remarks / Newcomer’s Self-introduction / Grouping
(Session I)
4:10 ~ 4:50pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
4:50 ~ 5:10pm Summarization (20 mins)
5:10 ~ 5:15pm Regrouping / Instruction Giving / Taking a 10 Minutes Break (Intermission)
(Session II)
5:15 ~ 5:55pm Discussion Session (40 mins)
6:00 ~ 6:20pm Summarization (20 mins)
6:20 ~ 6:30pm Concluding Remarks / Announcements

Meeting Date: As shown on the Subject Line
Meeting Time: 4:00pm – 6:30pm

On-site meeting:
Meeting Venue: 丹堤咖啡 Dante Coffee (Minimum Order $80)
Address: 台北市濟南路三段25號[MAP]-捷運忠孝新生站3號出口步行3分鐘

Online meeting:
Zoom meeting ID: 848 6108 3035
Password: yoyo2022
Link: https://tinyurl.com/yoyo2022-meeting

Important Notes:
1. We advise participants to print out the discussion questions and bring them to the meeting for reference. As for the supporting articles, feel free to print them out, as well, according to your preference.
2. We suggest that participants read the articles and think about the questions in advance.
3. Newcomers should prepare a two-to-three minute self-introduction in English to deliver when called upon by the host before the start of the discussion. The host may also ask you to give brief feedback about the meeting at the conclusion of the meeting.
4. We conduct the entire meeting in English. All participants should have at least moderate English-conversation skills and be able to articulate your ideas for each discussion question.
5. We welcome newcomers and other guests to attend the meetings and join the discussion freely for two times (including on-site and online meetings). After that, we hope you will consider becoming a YoYo English Club member. We charge a NT$1500 lifetime membership fee.
最後由 李昰翰 於 週日 9月 11, 2022 11:39 am 編輯,總共編輯了 1 次。
YOYO member
文章: 47
註冊時間: 週一 12月 17, 2018 8:37 pm

Re: 9/17(Sat) The battle of Red Cliff (host: Winston)

文章 李昰翰 »

Bring to top
YOYO member
文章: 2721
註冊時間: 週三 4月 11, 2007 11:40 pm

Re: 9/17(Sat) The battle of Red Cliff (host: Winston)

文章 Kooper »

The story of the Three Kingdoms is a testament to the important role that luck plays in the success of any individual, group, or kingdom. As it is often said that after we have given our best, it is up to fate whether things work out for us. Working hard simply helps us lay the foundations for a possible future success, but it does not guarantee it.

While Romance of the Three Kingdoms is a historical novel that can be finished in several days, the history of the Three Kingdoms spanned as long as six decades. Considering the fact that a person’s heyday is relatively short-lived on the scale of history, it wouldn’t be surprising that no single individual’s influence could dominate the whole period and decide the ultimate winner.
YOYO member
文章: 47
註冊時間: 週一 12月 17, 2018 8:37 pm

Re: 9/17(Sat) The battle of Red Cliff (host: Winston)

文章 李昰翰 »

Hi, Kooper, yes, the story told us working hard and smartly can’t guarantee success to the finale. I’m probably a fan for Three Kingdoms. Every time I watch the story which brings me accompanying to the long rough expedition teaming up with so many talents. The processes they underwent all those arduous life and events might bring us more memorable feelings than the finale. If a person’s heyday has dedicated his sparks to the processes of a team-work efforts toward common goal, it is still worthy and posterity will remember it regardless what the finale will be.
YOYO member
文章: 2721
註冊時間: 週三 4月 11, 2007 11:40 pm

Re: 9/17(Sat) The battle of Red Cliff (host: Winston)

文章 Kooper »

Trying to identify the most brilliant strategist or the most powerful general in the time of the Three Kingdoms is no different from arguing over who is the GOAT in the NBA history, which could be viewed nearly as a moot point. To begin with, their heyday might not take place at the same time. That is a factor particularly important when it comes to the comparison of powerful generals. In some cases, the strategists died young or didn’t have the ear of the rulers to fully demonstrate their intelligence. In other cases, the strategists or generals never got the opportunity to fight toe-to-toe.